Hoplophile
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 238
None yet, expect some about noon tomorrow.
Bad FFL experience in FL.
- Thread starter Hoplophile
- Start date
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Aaron Baker
Member
I sure hope you're not going to talk to the police by yourself tomorrow.
If you're not taking a lawyer, you shouldn't go. If you do, you may not get bailed out of jail early enough to give us an update tomorrow.
If you do go, though, remember that you can walk out any time you want. If you're there talking to them voluntarily, you can leave whenever you want, no matter how much it feels like you can't.
Aaron
If you're not taking a lawyer, you shouldn't go. If you do, you may not get bailed out of jail early enough to give us an update tomorrow.
If you do go, though, remember that you can walk out any time you want. If you're there talking to them voluntarily, you can leave whenever you want, no matter how much it feels like you can't.
Aaron
Bill2e
Member
Why exactly do they want to talk to you?
NavyLCDR
member
No. It doesn't. Show me the law where it says it does.
Like was stated earlier. DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE! DO NOT GO TO THE POLICE STATION. DO NOT TALK TO THEM AT YOUR RESIDENCE. DO NOT TALK TO THEM PERIOD.
NavyLCDR
member
No. It doesn't. Please show me in the law where that is required.
For the OP:
DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE. DO NOT GO TO THE POLICE STATION. DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE AT YOUR HOME. DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE ON THE PHONE!
You did nothing wrong. The only thing they could pin on you, if they wanted to, was for making a false statement on the 4473, which you did not do. You answered the 4473 truthfully, both times. So don't worry about it.
NavyLCDR
member
No. It doesn't. Can you please show in me in CFR's where this is required?
Hoplophile
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 238
Well, I went to talk to the police. I brought not one, but two lawyers and remained more or less silent the entire time. It seems to have gone well, lasted just a few minutes. The detective acknowledged that I did nothing illegal. He wanted to talk to me because of the "times", a reference to recent school shootings.
However, I think this FFL might not be all there. I'm wondering whether this guy is senile or something. I sort of wonder if he's just not completely deaf. The detective said that the FFL alleged that I:
* Showed up several times. For the record, I showed up once, alone.
* Brought with me two other people. The detective gave me their names. I've never heard of them, and apparently, the detective can't find them. I'm wondering if they exist, or if they simply entered the shop at the same time I did, or what? I'm gonna go with the "doesn't exist" option, since everyone else there seemed to be part of the "I Have a 6,000 Dollar Shotgun" clique. I'm pretty sure he knew everyone there.
* Tried to buy 3 AKs. There was only one there, since it was an FFL transfer. I didn't try to buy anything, just do the transfer.
* Tried to buy 700-1000 rounds of ammo. While this wouldn't be abnormal, I didn't. I didn't try to buy anything.
* Said that I didn't pay rent and lived with several other people. While I do have two roommates, we all pay rent. I also didn't say anything of the sort. What, does he think I'm living in some meth den or something?
So, this guy CALLED THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY. Let me emphasize that: This guy called the federal government, and felt I was a threat to HOMELAND SECURITY. Since when does a kid with a rifle qualify as terrorista internacional?
He's really potentially screwed up my life here. Where else will this incident pop up? Will I be able to get a job? How about even buy another rifle? Now they have my name and a file on me. Now they know I have a rifle. And this may jeopardize me getting a security clearance, which is really important for a scientist. Now my rifle will probably be one of the first confiscated when the powers that be decide that we can't have them anymore. Now I'm gonna be strip-searched every time I want to board a plane. Seriously, this goes way beyond unprofessional. What, does he think terrorists are just gonna walk into his store at any time? Because that's basically how he acted toward me.
So, one detective visit and no-fly list later, do people think I should post the business name?
However, I think this FFL might not be all there. I'm wondering whether this guy is senile or something. I sort of wonder if he's just not completely deaf. The detective said that the FFL alleged that I:
* Showed up several times. For the record, I showed up once, alone.
* Brought with me two other people. The detective gave me their names. I've never heard of them, and apparently, the detective can't find them. I'm wondering if they exist, or if they simply entered the shop at the same time I did, or what? I'm gonna go with the "doesn't exist" option, since everyone else there seemed to be part of the "I Have a 6,000 Dollar Shotgun" clique. I'm pretty sure he knew everyone there.
* Tried to buy 3 AKs. There was only one there, since it was an FFL transfer. I didn't try to buy anything, just do the transfer.
* Tried to buy 700-1000 rounds of ammo. While this wouldn't be abnormal, I didn't. I didn't try to buy anything.
* Said that I didn't pay rent and lived with several other people. While I do have two roommates, we all pay rent. I also didn't say anything of the sort. What, does he think I'm living in some meth den or something?
So, this guy CALLED THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY. Let me emphasize that: This guy called the federal government, and felt I was a threat to HOMELAND SECURITY. Since when does a kid with a rifle qualify as terrorista internacional?
He's really potentially screwed up my life here. Where else will this incident pop up? Will I be able to get a job? How about even buy another rifle? Now they have my name and a file on me. Now they know I have a rifle. And this may jeopardize me getting a security clearance, which is really important for a scientist. Now my rifle will probably be one of the first confiscated when the powers that be decide that we can't have them anymore. Now I'm gonna be strip-searched every time I want to board a plane. Seriously, this goes way beyond unprofessional. What, does he think terrorists are just gonna walk into his store at any time? Because that's basically how he acted toward me.
So, one detective visit and no-fly list later, do people think I should post the business name?
Aaron Baker
Member
Smart man. I'm really glad you took a gang of attorneys with you.
I say you should post the name of the shop. If the guy is that nuts, you're doing everyone a service.
As for everything else, I wouldn't get too paranoid. You can probably still get a security clearance and fly commercial airlines--the guy is a kook, after all, and they didn't turn up anything in their investigation.
And the fact that they know you own a rifle? Well, they'd know anyway, since a 4473 was filled out. You gotta go all or nothing with your paranoia there. If you're really worried about it, buy a parts kit and build your own rifle. Perfectly legal and they'll never know you own it.
Aaron
I say you should post the name of the shop. If the guy is that nuts, you're doing everyone a service.
As for everything else, I wouldn't get too paranoid. You can probably still get a security clearance and fly commercial airlines--the guy is a kook, after all, and they didn't turn up anything in their investigation.
And the fact that they know you own a rifle? Well, they'd know anyway, since a 4473 was filled out. You gotta go all or nothing with your paranoia there. If you're really worried about it, buy a parts kit and build your own rifle. Perfectly legal and they'll never know you own it.
Aaron
Hoplophile
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 238
Silver Dollar Firearms in Odessa, FL. The FFL who did this is Michael J. Battista and I personally don't intend to ever do business with him again.
Anyone else have experiences with him?
Anyone else have experiences with him?
NavyLCDR
member
If you sustain actual damages due to the incident, sue him for libel. Get a copy of the police report now, for evidence.
Crazy Fingers
member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2008
- Messages
- 243
Thanks for posting the info. I guarantee you that the detective was much less willing to try slimy tactics with the attorneys present.
I wouldn't worry about not getting a security clearance or ending up on a no-fly list. If you work for most civilian government agencies (NASA, DOE, EPA, etc) you will get a NACI (name check with inquiries) which is done on form SF-85. It's not a cakewalk but is pretty easy. The hardest part is just remembering everywhere you've lived in the last several years and someone who can verify each address. The actual inquiries take place through the mail and all they ask the person is if the information you provided is true. "The federal government is doing a background investigation on John Doe for purposes of employment. He claims he has known you for 2 years, while he was living at 1234 Any Street. Is this information accurate?" Yes, No, I don't know this person, or I have negative information I wish to share. Easy.
Now the national security positions are done on SF-86, and the form is similar but they do real interviews. I haven't ever filled out an SF-86, but have been interviewed by Federal Investigative Services regarding a friend of mine. They ask a lot of questions about the candidate, some very personal, but mostly they are just trying to get information on the table so that the candidate cannot be blackmailed in the future. They won't care that you had some issues trying to buy a rifle back in 2008. They don't care that when you were 16 you had the cops called on you once. They will care if you used to be a drug dealer, have a gambling problem, have a drinking or drug problem, are a closet homosexual, or if you are a member of some weird organization trying to infiltrate the U.S. government. I'm hoping that none of these are true.
I wouldn't worry about not getting a security clearance or ending up on a no-fly list. If you work for most civilian government agencies (NASA, DOE, EPA, etc) you will get a NACI (name check with inquiries) which is done on form SF-85. It's not a cakewalk but is pretty easy. The hardest part is just remembering everywhere you've lived in the last several years and someone who can verify each address. The actual inquiries take place through the mail and all they ask the person is if the information you provided is true. "The federal government is doing a background investigation on John Doe for purposes of employment. He claims he has known you for 2 years, while he was living at 1234 Any Street. Is this information accurate?" Yes, No, I don't know this person, or I have negative information I wish to share. Easy.
Now the national security positions are done on SF-86, and the form is similar but they do real interviews. I haven't ever filled out an SF-86, but have been interviewed by Federal Investigative Services regarding a friend of mine. They ask a lot of questions about the candidate, some very personal, but mostly they are just trying to get information on the table so that the candidate cannot be blackmailed in the future. They won't care that you had some issues trying to buy a rifle back in 2008. They don't care that when you were 16 you had the cops called on you once. They will care if you used to be a drug dealer, have a gambling problem, have a drinking or drug problem, are a closet homosexual, or if you are a member of some weird organization trying to infiltrate the U.S. government. I'm hoping that none of these are true.
Hoplophile
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 238
Either way, he definitely could have screwed my life up. I do appreciate the info on clearances, though, and it puts my mind at ease.
Guess I should go shooting now.
Guess I should go shooting now.
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