Ballistic gelatin test : 7.62x25mm JHPs

[rdrancher]

JE223 - If you can find a CZ52 or Tok to borrow, I'll fund the test.

Let me know.

rd

 

[Brass Fetcher]

That sounds good to me. I know a few fellow gun nuts in my area, at least one of which should have a CZ-52.

Thank you,

JE

 

[seeker_two]

.30 Luger is a much different cartridge than .30 Mauser.

In power...yes. But the cartridge dimensions are the same. Kinda like the .38ACP and .38 Super.....

For a conversion, you'd definitely have to change out the recoil & firing pin springs. Probably add shock buffers. Like converting a .45ACP to .45 Super or .460 Rowland.....

 

[Jim Watson]

But the cartridge dimensions are the same. Kinda like the .38ACP and .38 Super

Not quite like. 7.62x25 is on a 25 mm case, fancy that. 7.65 Luger is on a 21mm case; OALs in proportion.

O'l Georg reduced the length of the round because he was moving the recoil spring to the backstrap behind the magazine instead of in the Borchardt's ungainly housing and did not want to end up with an ungainly wide grip. The CZ52's designers did not have that freedom because they were stuck with the Sov-bloc standard round.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Seeker_two, you are confusing the similar case dimensions of the Tokarev round and the Mauser round with the Luger round.
Tokarev is almost identical to the 7.63 Mauser and both are defintiely not interchangeable than the different dimensioned .30 Luger.

From Wikipedia:

.30 Luger
Bullet diameter 7.861 mm (0.309 in)
Neck diameter 8.433 mm (0.332 in)
Base diameter 9.906 mm (0.39 in)
Rim diameter 10.01 mm (0.394 in)
Case length 21.59 mm (0.85 in)

Tokarev
Bullet diameter .307 in (7.8 mm)
Neck diameter .330 in (8.38 mm)
Shoulder diameter .370 in (9.4 mm)
Base diameter .380 in (9.65 mm)
Rim diameter .390 in (9.91 mm)
Rim thickness .052 in (1.32 mm)
Case length .97 in (24.64 mm)

7.63 Mauser
Neck diameter .332 in (8.43 mm)
Shoulder diameter .370 in (9.4 mm)
Base diameter .381 in (9.68 mm)
Rim diameter .390 in (9.91 mm)

 

[rdrancher]

JE223 - Cash for the test has been sent.

rd

 

[Brass Fetcher]

rd - The money has been received, thank you. I will begin checking around for a CZ-52 shooter on Monday.

JE

 

[seeker_two]

Come on, guys....what's a couple of millimeters between friends?...

Thanks for the correction.

 

[RyanM]

This should be an interesting test. If the results are good, the CZ-52 may yet be a decent glovebox gun.

Are you going to try squeezing in a 4-layer denim test? Almost any JHP can do fine against bare gel, but it's the denim that really seperates the men from the boys.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

@RyanM - The automobile/light cover realm is an area that I would like to explore further with the 7.62x25mm. IE, using a hollowpoint that performs reliably in bare gelatin (and maybe denim), I would like to evaluate that bullets performance against the FBI car door barrier test in comparison to the more conventional handgun bullets like 9x19mm - .45ACP, etc.

The search for a CZ-52 shooter had to be postponed until Tuesday.

 

[the naked prophet]

That's one of the reasons I want a serious handgun (as opposed to a collector's piece or impractical-for-carry milsurp) chambered in that caliber.

With the amazing work that SA did in making a double stack .45 fit in that small XD grip, I'd like to see the same thing in 7.62x25 (might be a bit longer but thinner grip). I don't think it would be too difficult. I'd LOVE a S&W M&P semiauto in that caliber, as that is my personal favorite of the "serious" handguns.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

Update : the 7.62x25mm Wolf JHP has been ordered. The scheduled delivery date is 01OCT07... if it doesn't get here any sooner, the test will be tentatively scheduled to occur on Saturday, 06OCT07.

 

[rdrancher]

JE223 - Looking forward to the test!

rd

 

[mavracer]

while we're waiting I chronoed some,the wolf JHP were much slower than Sellier&Bellot FMJ 1400 fps ave for wolf 1550 ave for S&B. of course thats the same 1550 that my 10mm 135 noslers posted

 

[macadore]

Thanks for the work. I feel the 7.62x25 is a real sleeper round. As for handgun conversions, I believe AMT, and maybe others, made a handgun in .30 Carbine. I’m not a gunsmith, so I don’t know if that would work or not. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the 7.62x25 with the .30 Carbine round.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Macadore, this articles says the .30 carbine shooting an 85 gr bullet gets up to 2000 ft/s out of a Ruger Blackhawk revolver http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastruger30bh.htm

 

[AZAndy]

Thanks, all, for this interesting discussion. I'm pleased to report that this thread gave me a perfect excuse to get a CZ-52 to try out the cartridge for myself. As this is an ammunition-centered thread, I'll share my impressions of the pistol elsewhere...

I look forward to the further testing!

 

[macadore]

Thanks Novus. That would seem to give the .30 carbine and edge over the7.62x25.

 

[Ignition Override]

For a guy who has no knowledge of handguns, how would you compare the power of this Russian round to the 380 ACP or 9mm?

How easy is it to spare Tokarev parts in the US?

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I can't speak for the spare parts issue, because I only owned the gun long enough to conduct testing with it, but as far as how the 7.62x25mm compares to the 9x17mm and 9x19mm ...

A typical 7.62x25mm cartridge produces 450 ft-lbs of kinetic energy, whereas the 'typical' high pressure 9x19mm produces about 430 ft-lbs. The .380ACP is naturally less than either of these two.

The difference comes into play when penetration is discussed. It appears as though some companies offer 90gr 9x19mm cartridges that travel at 1500 ft/sec from the muzzle. This is pretty close to a 85gr bullet moving at 1550 ft/sec, with the difference being the diameter of the bullets.

A 7.62x25mm bullet is 0.310"ish in diameter, giving a surface area for the bullet of 0.075 square inches. A 9mm bullet is 0.355" in diameter, giving a bullet surface area of 0.100 square inches ... this is what makes the 7.62x25mm hell-on-wheels for penetration ability.

 

[jjohnson]

Thanks!

Hey, NICE WORK! Thank you!

I've been a little leery of tests published by gun magazines who all have vested interests in one commercial deal or more. And while you can find results like FBI testing and whatnot for .40, 9mm, military testing foro 9mm, .45, it's hard to find for something uncommon.

I have a couple CZ52s also, and I gotta admit it's impressive at the range. Fairly hot - but I've wondered at times how it would perform as a CCW deal. Makes sense that good expanding bullets would do well at the high velocities, but this is the first testing I've seen for the Tokarev round.

Very good of you to take the time and trouble to share your findings. The CZ52 isn't pretty barf and is a bit clunky for my CCW, but maybe I'll leave it under the seat of my truck now....

 

[wnycollector]

If you want to CC a 7.62 chambered pistol...the only option is the Tok! SOOOO slim, it disapears IWB. Now if you could only carry it cocked and locked I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 9 rounds of wolf JHP.

How easy is it to spare Tokarev parts in the US?

Lots of spare tok parts from these guys www.marstar.ca

 

[notjustanothermini]

i hate to dig this one up, but i stumbled on it while looking for a .440 corbon conversion on a 50gi glock. HA, no luck with that. as you could imagine.

but

I would love to have a Glock with double stack mags in this caliber. I would carry that, if I could wrap my hand around it. Maybe a double stack 1911 or something else single action.

they do its called a glock model 31,32,33.

also a 10mm glock converted to 9x25dillon, is a screamer, i have a g29 with a LWD 9x25 barrel and that thing is a fire breather.

you can shoot .30 luger out of a 7.62x25 gun, not the other way around.

ruger made a p89 in .30 luger, they are on gunbroker and guns america from time to time, with both 9mm and .30 luger barrels. i would imagine a finishing reamer would do the converion of the .30 luger barrel to chamber the tok round.

sorry for digging it up, any results of the testing you did?

 

[Giterboosted]

+1 for the wolf gold testing results as I'm wanting to carry my cz

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I'm sorry - I don't understand what the question is.

What test results are you looking for?