Ballistic gelatin test : 7.62x25mm JHPs

[Brass Fetcher]

I have just finished testing the CZ-52 in ballistic gelatin, using three weights of the Hornady XTP JHP.

Firearm : CZ-52 with 4.6" barrel length

Ammunition : Three handloaded Hornady XTP bullets of various weights, loaded to tabulated maximum pressure

Block calibration : 590 ft/sec and 8.7cm penetration

Shot 1 - Hornady 85gr XTP, resized to 0.309" diameter. Impacted at unknown velocity (chronograph read 3313 ft/sec). Penetrated to 11.5" and was recovered at 0.510" average diameter. Track outlined in blue.

Shot 2 - Hornady 90gr XTP. Impacted at 1512 ft/sec and penetrated to 12.3". Bullet was recovered at 0.498" average diameter. Track outlined in magenta.

Shot 3 - Hornady 100gr XTP. Impacted at 1551 ft/sec and penetrated to 13.9". Bullet was recovered at 0.501" average diameter. Track outlined in purple.

The 85gr and 100gr Hornady XTPs were actually a little bit too large in diameter for this usage (0.312") - IE, most bullets I've seen for the 7.62x25mm were 0.308" in diameter. So, those bullets were trimmed down using the Lee lead bullet sizing die, in 0.308" diameter.

 

[mashaffer]

Thanks for running these tests. Very interesting results. I am no expert but that loks like pretty good performance to me.

mike

 

[grimjaw]

Thanks very much, JE223. So if looks like if someone designed a decent hollowpoint for this caliber, it could be an effective load on unarmored targets. Expansion through clothing or barriers and gel would be good tests.

I wish I had ten acres of my own . . .

jm

 

[RyanM]

Not too shabby. The 100 gr XTP may be a real winner. Any plans for tests with 4 layer denim, or FBI heavy clothing?

 

[DMK]

All rounds penetrated at least 12", check
All rounds expanded, check
All rounds made a good sized wound channel, check


Assuming they shoot reliably and accurately, they all look like a decent SD round to me.

Thanks for the test JE223!

 

[Geronimo45]

Nice work!

 

[denfoote]

Now all we have to do is convince Hornady to make them!!

Looks good as a SD round!!

 

[Brass Fetcher]

Thank you everybody for the kind words. I would like to do a 4-layer denim test - but we're about 'at that time again' : the gelatin powder has run out. The last block that I have is setting up right now and I have probably no more than a handful of powder left. I need more than a few handfuls to make a block. So I will let ya'll know if anything is in the works for future gelatin tests. I do see a test coming up involving .22lr and .32ACP, but that is it, as far as I can tell for the foreseeable future.

Last time around, Odd Job helped me out and I was able to get the powder that was used in these tests and in the 10 previous blocks. If you liked any of those tests .. please let him know. Oh, while I'm at it, send JohnKSa thanks for lending me the CZ-52 used in the last two tests!

FWIW, the performance of these rounds looked a lot to me like what I got from the .357 Magnum. I wish that I had a photo of that track available, but alas, it is not to be. Basically, a wild amount of cracking in the initial inches of penetration and then an abrupt halt, with lots of fragmentation. Both are pretty nice rounds.

What I would like to see for the 7.62x25mm would be a hollowpoint that goes out to about 0.60" diameter and has the accompanying mass to drive it to the minimum of 12.0".

Thank you,

JE223

 

[JohnKSa]

Thanks for all the work, I definitely got the easy part--especially since Tom handled the shipping for me.

 

[denfoote]

Any chance of you sending these results to Hornady??

 

[Brass Fetcher]

Well, I could send the results to Hornady. But I don't see one everyday Joe like myself having much sway - 10 or more of the folks who are interested contacting Hornady would have much more sway IMO.

I imagine that at a company like Hornady, it is not all 'about the bottom line' as it is with most other companies. That has been my experience with most bullet/ammo companies, that the spirit of one hobbiest helping another, still survives. If they could turn a profit and had the time, it would be quite the thing to see effective factory JHPs for the CZ and similar guns!

JE223

 

[the naked prophet]

I would love to have a Glock with double stack mags in this caliber. I would carry that, if I could wrap my hand around it. Maybe a double stack 1911 or something else single action.

 

[merpho]

Reeds Ammo

Reeds Ammo Research already loads the Hornady bullets in 7.62x25. They recommend you install a 18.5 recoil spring. They function well in my CZ52 which I carry for self defense.

 

[McCall911]

What I would like to see for the 7.62x25mm would be a hollowpoint that goes out to about 0.60" diameter

My thoughts exactly. The expansion was a little underwhelming at first sight, but we've got to remember the 7.62x25 is basically a .30 caliber handgun cartridge. Still, if 9mm's can expand up to .75 inch, then it would appear to be possible to squeeze out more expansion from the 7.62 round with a little development.

Anyway, thanks again, JE223.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I just measured some parts of a USGI M1911 magazine - it appears to be quite a bit thicker than the CZ-52 magazine, and has slightly less length for a cartridge than the CZ-52.

So. What about lengthening the cut in the 1911 magazine well, and welding (initially) spacers to the CZ-52 magazine to make up for the narrower width? Get a .32ACP barrel blank, and ream it with a 7.62x25mm. Somewhere along the line, the outer diameter of the blank should be dimensioned the same as the .45ACP barrel its replacing.

As I've shown in an earlier thread, it appears as though the recoil of the 7.62x25mm should be equal or less than the .45ACP. The only complaint that I have with the CZ-52, is the CZ-52. Sorry. I like the gun, but the caliber is what really endears it to me - it could be a lot more popular with the 'right' bullets and by being chambered in a more ergonomic pistol.

JE223

 

[R127]

This is a favorite caliber of mine. I once did some research regarding a possible homebrew doublestack 7.62x25 and saw that the round should work pretty well in a 10mm magazine. I think there is probably something you could do with a 10mm EAA Witness, a 9mm slide(for compatible breechface) and a custom barrel to get you a doublestack autoloader in 7.62x25.

 

[konaseven]

Wolf Ammo

Has anyone tried out the Wolf ammo in 7.62x25 Jacketed Hollow point? I have some on the way for a CZ-52 I just picked up.

I see Winchester makes WWB for this gun in ball ammo.

EDIT: Never mind I see the Wolf JHP's have already been mentioned in another 7.62x25 thread.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

Chambering the 7.62x25mm in a 'modern' gun

It appears to me that the 5.7x28mm cartridge is longer than the 7.62x25mm... any thoughts on rechambering the 5.7 pistol for this cartridge?

Are there any lower-priced 5.7x28mm handguns than the FN 5.7?

 

[earplug]

While I have been interested in the 7.62x25. The 9x23 does A better job.
Don't beat A dead horse, find A live one.

 

[Geronimo45]

Are there any lower-priced 5.7x28mm handguns than the FN 5.7?

Don't think any other 5.7 hanguns exist at the moment.

 

[Soybomb]

Those are surprisingly good looking, nice work.

 

[Novus Collectus]

I just measured some parts of a USGI M1911 magazine - it appears to be quite a bit thicker than the CZ-52 magazine, and has slightly less length for a cartridge than the CZ-52.

So. What about lengthening the cut in the 1911 magazine well, and welding (initially) spacers to the CZ-52 magazine to make up for the narrower width? Get a .32ACP barrel blank, and ream it with a 7.62x25mm. Somewhere along the line, the outer diameter of the blank should be dimensioned the same as the .45ACP barrel its replacing.

I read an issue of Amall Arms Review where they had an article about a war trophy broight back from the Vietnam war. The North Vietnamese took a captured 1911A1, shaved out the front inside of the magazine well so that it could take a Tokarev 33 magazine, opened up the ejection port in the slide (exposing the first locking lug on the barrel which was also relined to 7.62) and welded then remilled the face of the slide to accept the base of the tokarev cartridge.
Looked cool, but also looked like a dangerous conversion.

 

[RyanM]

Isn't the .224 something or other, which is just 7.62x25mm necked down to .223, supposed to be significantly more powerful than 5.7x28mm? Something like the same velocity with a 50% heavier bullet. I'm guessing 7.62x25mm would just be too powerful for the platform.

 

[sefus]

IMO, The 7.62X25mm operates at high enough velocity that a hollow point bullet is neither needed or desired. A good soft point will provide all the expansion needed, and a better, more controlled expansion than with most hollow points.

But mines a plinker, not a defensive gun. Would be interested to see a HP test through a few layers of Denum.

-Sefus

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I had heard about using the 110gr 'Plinker' jacketed softpoint at the time that I did this test. If I ever get this handgun again, I will probably do some more experimenting with loads.