Banning bullet buttons in California because of Colorado and Wisconsin?

[Librarian]

I thought with the bullet button in place, you could use higher capacity magazines? No?

No.

A 'bullet button', under current law, makes a gun so it cannot accept a 'detachable magazine'. (Don't try to understand - this is California.)

CA law ALSO makes a fixed-mag rifle with a mag capacity > 10 what they call an 'assault weapon'.

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Non_detachable_magazines

 

[tech30528]

Why don't they just ban the ACT of assault and not focus on the millions of weapons that will never be used in a crime?

Now THERE'S a novel idea....

 

[tarosean]

In any event it's just not going to happen. There are far more AR/AK-type rifles in CA than anywhere including TX. They're not going to be magically confiscated by anyone.

Sure about that? Proposition H in san fran ring a bell? Might be singing a different tune if the NRA and SAF hadn't sued and had the law repealed.There were provisions on surrendering your weapons to the nearest pd. Would they have taken the next step and went door to door if no one surrendered? I would hope not but nothing surprises me in this day and age..

You have any proof of your other claims or just anecdotal evidence?

 

[Capybara]

Thank you for seeing the light ArfinGreebly, I couldn't have stated it any better.

Either united we gun owners stand or, eventually, apart we will fall. If this passes, it will embolden the idiot lawmakers and politicians in this state to begin working on handguns, shotguns and yes, bolt action HUNTING rifles. Yes, surprise, all of those antis who profess to be okay with guns for hunting? Guess what, they want ALL guns banned, regardless of type. The whole AR/AK thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[tomrkba]

The entire concept of the bullet button is ridiculous.

 

[Kynoch]

Hey, I have a great idea!

Let's call California names, point out how stupid its government reps -- and therefore its citizens -- are, and do the point-and-laugh thing.

Because everyone knows that California politics hold absolutely no sway anywhere else in the country. At all.

Hey, anyone dumb enough to live there . . . don't they "deserve" whatever they get?

Har har. Lookit them fools.

Yeah.

'Cuz if massive stoopid is enacted into law in California, the Sierra Nevada mountain range will prevent it from escaping into the rest of the country.

No danger of legislative contagion.

Not my problem.

Sucks to be them.







Until, of course, it sucks to be us.

A M E N ! ! !

In my opinion a great deal of long-standing envy for California and a great deal of ignorance about this state spews out as hatred in the form of hammering CA and its residents on gun issues. That's flat-out dumb as you point out.

Nobody (except residents of the state) would care if Missouri had the exact same gun laws as California. But Missouri is not California.

Like it or not, California sets the tone for the entire country. What begins here propagates across the entire USA sooner or later. Rather than attack California and its residents, gun owners should make the effort to understand what really goes on here (and in many, many other gun-unfriendly areas in the USA that get little attention compared to CA) and work to combat the bad before it effects them directly.

 

[Kynoch]

Sure about that? Proposition H in san fran ring a bell? Might be singing a different tune if the NRA and SAF hadn't sued and had the law repealed.There were provisions on surrendering your weapons to the nearest pd. Would they have taken the next step and went door to door if no one surrendered? I would hope not but nothing surprises me in this day and age..

You have any proof of your other claims or just anecdotal evidence?

Coulda, woulda, shoulda! Yada, yada, yada! It never happened.

Next?

 

[crazyjennyblack]

On one hand, I agree with ArfinGreebly. We should fight tyrannical and illogical legislation wherever we find it, and fight it with the same dedication with which we fight against these things in our own backyard.

However, I can't help but feel that our nation might be better off if we had one state as a quarantine zone for all the folks who just don't seem to want the freedoms the rest of us would like to enjoy. As for Kynoch's idea of a long-standing envy of California, I cannot relate. You couldn't pay me enough money to live there (or Wisconsin or Illinois or the East Coast). I was offered a literally guaranteed job out there in Red Bluff last year, and turned it down in spite of that fact that it would have at least tripled my income. If that same job were in Montana or Wyoming or Kansas, I would move in a heartbeat.

Back to the bullet button - I wonder how many people would be able to press the nose of a bullet into a little notch to swap out a magazine in a stressful situation, whether defending themselves or committing an actual crime like we saw in Colorado. Under stress fine motor skills practically disappear as adrenaline rushes through your system, making the bullet button a hard-to-use option. Wouldn't criminals simply drive out of state to Nevada and "legally" pick up some components to convert their AR-15 instead of messing with a bullet button?

 

[tomrkba]

Yes, Kynoch, it is part of the FEDERAL Constitution. The Supreme Court of the US also declared that the Second Amendment ONLY applies to FEDERAL action. Recent rulings have modified that in certain limited scopes. However, the state constitutions still guide state legislatures. There is no right to keep and bear arms in California except to the extent that the Federal Second Amendment reaches into the state in the limited contexts outlined in Heller and others.

As such, Californians have been banned from openly carrying an unloaded handgun in public. Why? The reason is the California legislature knows there is no right to keep and BEAR arms in California. If you need further proof, go to Los Angeles, California and open carry a gun. The police will inform you that you do not have any such right as they read the Miranda warnings to you.

If the right did exist in California, then the entire concept of "bullet button" would not exist. Californians would have regular weapons with detachable box magazines.

However, as goes California so goes the nation.....unfortunately.

No, it does not. The rest of the country has detachable box magazines. Most states have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions.

Here is an example of the misuse of the Commerce Clause:

http://keepandbeararms.com/laws/gca68.htm

The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618

An Act to amend title 18, United States Code, to provide for better control of the interstate traffic in firearms.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that this Act may be cited as the "Gun Control Act of 1968".

The very first line is the use of the Commerce Clause.

 

[Jon_Snow]

A couple of things:

1. Here's the newly amended bill proposed by Yee:

Existing law defines a firearm as an assault weapon, in part, based upon whether it has a detachable magazine. This bill would define "detachable magazine" for this purpose to mean any ammunition feeding device that can be removed from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action, and to include a magazine that may be detached from the firearm by depressing a button on the firearm either with the finger or by use of a tool or a bullet. The bill would declare that these amendments are declaratory of existing law, would direct the Attorney General to adopt regulations, and would make these amendments operative July 1, 2013.

Then there's this from the CA AG's office:

978.20Definitions
The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuantto Penal Code section 12276.1:
(a)“detachable magazine” means any ammunition feeding device that can beremoved readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm actionnor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge isconsidered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linkedammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that loadcartridges into the magazine.

Now it seems to me that what Yee is saying contradicts the precedent set forth by the CA-AG, so anyone want to bet that there will be a lawsuit based on that as soon as this goes into effect?

ETA:

However, I can't help but feel that our nation might be better off if we had one state as a quarantine zone for all the folks who just don't seem to want the freedoms the rest of us would like to enjoy.

You know, I'd be ok with that if it would actually work that way, but you can't quarantine this type of thinking. If all pro-RKBA activity in CA stopped the antis here would turn their attention outwards. "Hmm, despite getting rid of all guns here crime still keeps going up. It must be the guns in other states! We have to get rid of those too! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" I'm not saying that the rest of the country would immediately go their way, but they won't be satisfied with just one state.

 

[Robert]

There are FAR more AR/AK variant firearms in CA than any other two states combined.

Do you have a source for that claim?

 

[Robert]

MOD Speak

Lay off the California bashing. Next person to do it will earn an infraction and maybe even a vacation. In fact the next thing I read that even smells like a personal attack will earn the poster a vacation from posting of at least 5 days. Cut it out right now.

 

[Quiet]

Now it seems to me that what Yee is saying contradicts the precedent set forth by the CA-AG, so anyone want to bet that there will be a lawsuit based on that as soon as this goes into effect?

If passed, SB249 will legally redefine what a "detachable magazine" is.

The current CA Attorney General, Kamala Harris, supports this revision and will ensure that all existing definitions are removed/amended to comply with the proposed definition, if passed into law.

 

[willymc]

Thank you, Robert!!

 

[ccsniper]

why don't they just make murder illegal? I mean isn't that the best way to keep people from killing people is by making it illegal?

MODS this is politician bash, not Californy bash.

 

[303tom]

No those are case head buttons. Bullets are totally different.

OK, these then................

 

[tomrkba]

I disagree with the notion that "...as CA goes, so does the country" in terms of gun rights. The opposite has happened. "Shall issue," not "May Issue," is the new normal. AWB laws have been almost universally rejected. "One gun a month" has been repealed in Virginia; it is under attack elsewhere. "Stand your ground" is expanding, as is state premption.

Weapon and carry limits seem to be the same in those states without the RKBA in their constitutions. Those states will not change unless their populations make some serious demands. Oddly enough, Maryland appears to be on the verge of "Shall Issue" despite a highly Leftist state government.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Doesn't the part just swap out with the regular magazine release button?

How could you put a fixed magazine in an AR, have it welded in place by a gunsmith?

 

[Frank Ettin]

... "Stand your ground" is expanding, as is state premption. ...

There's no duty to retreat in California, and California has had state preemption for a long time. There's also a pretty decent Castle Doctrine in California, albeit without civil immunity.

 

[Kynoch]

...However, I can't help but feel that our nation might be better off if we had one state as a quarantine zone for all the folks who just don't seem to want the freedoms the rest of us would like to enjoy.

What an absolutely incendiary (I wanted to use another word) comment. You're inferring that because people live in CA or select other places they "just don't seem to want the freedoms the rest of us would like to enjoy." Really? In all sincerity is that truly what your thought process actually renders or are you just trying to be offensive?

As for Kynoch's idea of a long-standing envy of California, I cannot relate. You couldn't pay me enough money to live there (or Wisconsin or Illinois or the East Coast). I was offered a literally guaranteed job out there in Red Bluff last year, and turned it down in spite of that fact that it would have at least tripled my income. If that same job were in Montana or Wyoming or Kansas, I would move in a heartbeat.

You're showing more envy with this very posting. Ever notice that people who live in beautiful places (say Jackson, WY) have little negative to say about CA, yet those who live in cesspools (say Beaumont, TX) seem to derive great pleasure from attacking CA? Figure that one out...

If you're making 1/3 of what they pay in a small, off-the-beaten path place like Red Bluff, CA then you need to call the authorities on your employer because you're working for less than minimum wage. Red Bluff certainly wouldn't be my choice on where to live but what exactly did you find so offensive about it?

Back to the bullet button - I wonder how many people would be able to press the nose of a bullet into a little notch to swap out a magazine in a stressful situation, whether defending themselves or committing an actual crime like we saw in Colorado. Under stress fine motor skills practically disappear as adrenaline rushes through your system, making the bullet button a hard-to-use option. Wouldn't criminals simply drive out of state to Nevada and "legally" pick up some components to convert their AR-15 instead of messing with a bullet button?

Now there's a powerful statement! Weee-hawww! I can see the headlines now. "Husband and family are annihilated by 'LA gang members' because the decedent was not able to change out ammunition magazines (only 10 round magazines at that!) quickly enough as under stress fine motor skills practically disappear as adrenaline rushes through your system, making the bullet button a hard-to-use option."

That's OK though. Most of us here in CA keep a dozen or two AR's or AK's cocked & locked, ready to go with a dozen or so Glocks. When we empty a magazine we just switch rifles or pistols -- assuming we are able to take the safety off (the AR/AK) and pull the trigger with fine motor skills that have "practically disappeared."

 

[Kynoch]

Doesn't the part just swap out with the regular magazine release button?

How could you put a fixed magazine in an AR, have it welded in place by a gunsmith?

 

[fatcat4620]

That's OK though. Most of us here in CA keep a dozen or two AR's or AK's cocked & locked, ready to go with a dozen or so Glocks. When we empty a magazine we just switch rifles or pistols -- assuming we are able to take the safety off (the AR/AK) and pull the trigger with fine motor skills that have "practically disappeared."

I prefer my big pile of loaded 30 round mags. Takes up less space than 12 ten round one time use rifles

For real god luck on your keeping your bullet buttons.

 

[danez71]

As such, Californians have been banned from openly carrying an unloaded handgun in public. Why? The reason is the California legislature knows there is no right to keep and BEAR arms in California.

Not really true.

A law was enacted forbidding unloaded open carry as a direct result of the assembly of protesters in large-ish numbers carrying weapon and chanting slogans.

Those actions of the protesters were perceived by many to be irresponsible and/or threatening.

The legislators, acting on the request of many 'scared' citizens, enacted the law banning unloaded open carry.


The legislators did not initiate it on their own. They reacted to a perceived public safety issue.


This is very similar to what happened in 1967/68 that lead to the gun control act of 1968.

Yes, some would say history repeated itself.




Mods: This is not an attack on CA. I was born as raised there and have most of my family is still there. I live in AZ now, but I'm planning to move back hopefully this year. And please note I have never spelled California with a K in single post since I joined this forum. Its a great place with some misguided laws.

 

[Kynoch]

I disagree with the notion that "...as CA goes, so does the country" in terms of gun rights. The opposite has happened. "Shall issue," not "May Issue," is the new normal. AWB laws have been almost universally rejected. "One gun a month" has been repealed in Virginia; it is under attack elsewhere. "Stand your ground" is expanding, as is state premption.

Weapon and carry limits seem to be the same in those states without the RKBA in their constitutions. Those states will not change unless their populations make some serious demands. Oddly enough, Maryland appears to be on the verge of "Shall Issue" despite a highly Leftist state government.

Then you're not a student of history. My first thoughts following the last two massacres concerning guns was something a long the lines of "Most of the hyperbole I'm hearing right now is nothing more than emotion. Sadly though I could see action at the federal level to follow the 'California model' of 10 round mags and CA's description of an "assault weapon.'"

 

[zxcvbob]

Banning bullet buttons in California because of Colorado and Wisconsin?

They were trying for a ban before this happened, the shootings in CO and WI were just good luck (I've never seen some of these politicians more gleeful)