Barrel Break-in

[fireman 9731]

I pull a Bore-snake through mine to clean the factory oil out. Or if its a used gun to make sure there isn't anything in there that shouldn't me.

Then fire away.

I have had rifles "settle down" after a few dozen rounds, thats normal in my book.

Barrels smooth out, wear, and change over time. Barrel break-in processes only wear them out faster.

 

[Elkins45]

I've done the "clean after every shot for the first five, then after every five for the first 50" routine for my last few new guns. There's no way to know how they would have shot if I hadn't done this, so I really have no idea if it helped or hurt accuracy.

 

[Robert101]

I've been a gun owner for a number of years and was taught that the initial barrel cleaning was important for proper break-in. These days I'm not so sure. Last year I purchased a new DPMS TAC20 and yes I did the break-in. It shoots 1 MOA @ 100 yards every day at the range. Now I don't have any scientific data, but until someone can provide conclusive evidence to the contrary, I will continue the break-in with every new purchase.

 

[Mal H]

Art mentioned the late Gale McMillan. I would trust he said about it over anyone else on the matter.

Here is what he had to say on barrel break in: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=129987&postcount=16

 

[B!ngo]

Yes I do.

Probably doesn't make much difference, if any, in the kind of non-exotic utility-standards that I buy.

...but I do it because I'm OCD and it makes me feel good.

Re AR's, Ditto. Or said a bit differently, I'm sure it makes some difference. Likely a positive one. But whether or not it is observable or even measurable is unclear to me. But OCD'ness prevails over science (with me at least) every time.
B

 

[Usertag]

The only time you need to break-in a gun is if your looking to get the most accuracy out of it (sniper). Otherwise it is a waste of time.

 

[Robert101]

Mal, does McMillan's post which seems in context to apply to true high dollar match grade barrels also apply to other standard grade barrels? I can see that if an XXX high grade barrel, that has been triple lapped at the factory, should not require further break in.

It seems, to me any way, that maybe some clarity on barrel grade, material usage, etc. is necessary to consider and one can not apply a universal approach to this matter. I don't know, I'm just asking.

 

[taliv]

*sigh*

this topic is pretty much hopeless.

Do you really believe that if what you are doing would help a barrel that the barrel maker wouldn't have already done it.

yeah gale, i do. try to follow along here...

1. barrel maker makes barrel
2. i buy barrel
3. i send barrel to gunsmith
4. gunsmith cuts chamber in barrel

now all i want to accomplish is very simply to keep copper from building up in the barrel.

the way that copper gets there is NOT from the bullet sliding down the bore on bare steel.

it gets there by being scraped off the bullet in the throat from the tooling marks where the chamber reamer was cutting, vaporized and then deposited as the gas carries it down the bore

(however, once a layer of copper is there, copper from bullet jackets can adhere to the copper in the bore and build up)

so the fact that the barrel maker has 30 years of experience using a lead plug and the anal leakage from unicorns to magically "hand lap" the bore surface to perfection... doesn't mean a thing after your gunsmith runs his reamer in there, cause he just cut that perfect surface out and it's now laying in an oily mess in the bottom of his lathe, exposing the freshly cut stainless steel.

so unless step 5 above is going to be sending the barrel back to the barrel maker so he can hand lap the throat after the chamber is cut, the answer to gale's question has got to be that the barrel maker can't do anything that keeps me from having to break it in, because step 5 has got to be after steps 3 and 4, which happen 500 miles away from where step 1 occurred.

why don't we hand lap our throats you ask? well, because for some mystical reason, it seems that just shooting the dang thing seems to smooth the tool marks out after just a few shots! who would have guessed??? and all we really need to do is dump some copper solvent down the bore after the first few shots to keep the copper from building up.

 

[Sniper66]

I follow a break in procedure similar to what Elkins45 does..shoot a few, clean, shoot a few, clean, repeat. My rifles are for prairie dog shooting so I shoot quite a bit. I use a worn brush so I am not doing harse scrubbings each time. The idea of breaking in, I have read, is to fill micro-imperfections that occur during manufacturing, so it would not make sense to me to scrub the heck out of it.

 

[oldpapps]

Yes, conditionally.

Yes, for new barrels on rifles that I expect to perform better than average.

No, for well used rifles, pistols and the like.

Does it do any good? Yes, I get to play with my new toys before getting down to working out a load for that weapon. I can't say that I get better accuracy as I have never done a one on one test between two like barrels.

 

[proven]

from kreiger's website regarding break-in.

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal compared to a barrel with internal tooling marks. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is removed from the jacket material and released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this plasma and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it, copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat “polished” without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Every barrel will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is a similar hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in, sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the cleaning procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while breaking in the throat with bullets being fired over it.

Finally, the best way to tell if the barrel is broken in is to observe the patches; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.

i did a shortened break-in procedure with my 700, and it became noticeably easier/quicker to clean after very few rounds.

 

[Dthunter]

I made my own barrels years ago, practiced the barrel break in process.
I found that cleaning the bore was much easier, and the average velocity increased by close to 100fps(on some barrels, less on others). But it ALWAYS resulted in a barrel that gave me improved standard Deviations/Velocity spreads.(with the break in load). I used the exact same load on all break in rounds.
Every shot was chronygraphed, and targets were saved & filed.

I did this for several rifles, hunting, benchrest, and tactical rifles.

The end result is, yes it "CAN" make a difference in some barrels.
But it isnt always "worth" the labour associated with it unless you plan on shooting competition, or at distances past7-800 yards. (Distances are approximate).

I shoot out to 1760-2000 yards relelativley often. And EVERY advantage is WISELY accrued!
I shoot with some guys who never did a barrel break in. They seem to shoot well enough.
But, (not wanting to sound over confident): I seem to have fewer bad days at those distances. If its the barrel break in, I cant really say. Take what you want from this post.

I hope my experiences may help some other shooters. Just dont forget to keep it fun!

 

[ZeroJunk]

The vast majority of barrels are not custom hand lapped from a custom barrel maker.

Even if it is a custom barrel they likely did not chamber it and have no control over the condition of the throater or talent of whoever is doing the chambering.

The vast majority of shooters are never going to shoot a barrel out so a few extra rounds is meaningless.

Gale McMillan himself explained exactly why a barrel chambered with a dull throater would settle down and shoot it's best after a few hundred rounds.

Since no two barrels are the same there is no way to do an A/B comparison.

If there is a difference it does not amount to much and I doubt I am a good enough shot to notice it.

And, whatever got stuck in your head on the subject to begin with will likely stay stuck in your head regardless.

 

[HKGuns]

It is a COMPLETE waste of time. I've been shooting for a lot of years and have NEVER done it. I have no complaints about the accuracy of any of my numerous rifles.

It is an internet myth, propagated by the anal-retentive types who obsess about such things. Hopefully that clears it up for everyone.

 

[Art Eatman]

Ah, now, HK, I still like Gale's idea that the whole deal began with a barrel-maker who first came up with the break-in deal. He did it in order to have faster wear and thus sell more barrels. Gale posted that this was what the guy told him.

Okay, so guys believe it and do the break-in deal. Some go to work at a gun manufacturer and pass it on. After all, they work for a gun company so they thus are experts, right? And a set of believers builds across the industry. They, in turn, are experts. People listen to experts and in turn become believers.

Comes the Internet and away we go!

No, it's not anal-retentive.

But folks oughta do what they think is right. I'm nobody's boss.

 

[HKGuns]

But folks oughta do what they think is right. I'm nobody's boss.

Agreed, but the numbers scream ritual. (23% Yes - 77% No) I suppose you could make an argument that 77% of us are idiots and that might be correct, but I doubt it, as this isn't one of those threads over in the pistola area!

 

[ZeroJunk]

Most rifles will out shoot most shooters including myself out of the box which is why some ritual to imrove accuracy is a waste of time for most.

But, just because I can't shoot well enough to notice a subtle improvement in accuracy doesn't mean that somebody else can't or that it is never there.

 

[Moose1995]

For all those that think breaking in a barrel is a myth, I have never owned a rifle that shot as good within its first 20 to 50 rounds as it did after that. Barrel manufacturers do everything they can to make a barrel as accurate as possible, EXCEPT fire many rounds through it. There are things going on in that barrel that no amount of machining or polishing can duplicate to the passing of an actual bullet through that barrel. EVERY rifle I have ever owned has shot better after running some rounds through it and after several good cleanings. No myth, says I.

 

[Moose1995]

BTW, I have been breaking in my barrels since before the internet, as advised by an old timer at the gun shop I bought my rifle from, now the largest gun store in Illinois.

 

[USSR]

Please, somebody explain to me how Krieger's break-in routine, which consists of a total of 13 shots, is going to prematurely wear out a barrel? Okay, now that we have put Gale McMillan to rest, do it or don't do, but don't criticize someone who does it.

Don

 

[redneck2]

So....we're supposed to get all hyped up over a custom barrel that is "hand lapped", but say that a factory barrel that most likely has much worse machining should not be lapped....

I can tell you from experience that, if you lap a typical factory barrel, it stays cleaner longer. When I lap mine, I use a super fine polishing compound on a semi-tight patch. You can usually feel the rough spots inside a factory barrel.

With all due respect to McMillan, IMO a custom barrel had better be a whole different animal from most factory barrels. Kreiger hand laps theirs. Anybody here gonna say they're stupid, wasting their time, and don't know what they're doing?

 

[taliv]

exactly USSR. which is why i said this topic is hopeless. no one will answer honest, obvious questions with anything other than an appeal to an authority's reported conspiracy theory, that doesn't even make any sense.


I might be dating myself a little here as well, but I would encourage you to go back and read the October '88 edition of Precision Shooting magazine. In july of that year, the editor asked a number of top benchrest shooters about barrel break in, and in october, their responses were published.

As one might imagine, out of 9 surveyed, 8 said they broke their barrels in and 1 guy said he didn't do a "break in" but he did find the need to "clean new barrels more than old ones".


90% of competitive benchrest shooters were breaking in their barrels TEN YEARS before "the firing line". (partly because of an article Seely Masker wrote years before that)

THIS IS NOT AN INTERNET FAD.



the fact is that not a single one of those benchrest guys advocated more than 20 rounds during breakin. yet gale, TEN YEARS LATER claims in his famous conspiracy post they were taking 100 rounds to break in barrels.

I have never seen a barrel maker advocate 100 round breakin procedure. So it shouldn't be too hard for us to identify the guy that gale claims he helped get started in the barrel business and maybe get the other side of this story.

to be perfectly honest, it sounds like sour grapes to me. especially since in the very same post, gale says "When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get".

makes you wonder, if gale had such a great reputation, why all those top benchresters would follow the advice of his understudy instead of the legend himself...

this story has more plot holes than a ewe boll movie

 

[firesky101]

It seems we are having 2 separate discussions here.

Discussion 1: Should you follow a break in procedure, typically 13 rounds with some cleaning between.

Discussion 2: Fire/hand lapping a barrel.

I do not believe a standard break in will lessen the life of a barrel, but fire/hand lapping is what we should be asking about. I am not a expert, but it seems to me that it would significantly reduce the life of a barrel but may increase accuracy.

 

[bluetopper]

I have about decided to quit using brushes all together in cleaning bores in both rifles and handguns. Patches and a very light weight oil (diesel fuel) are all I use anymore and my barrels stay mirror-like.

 

[thump_rrr]

I've only been shooting regularly for the last 18 months.
Last September I bought a Savage 10BA. which is my first precision / long distance rifle.
I decided to break in the barrel because you can never go back and do it if it doesn't shoot well later.
I also use the same method as Elkins45 and have had great results.
The rifle shoots 5 shot 1/2 MOA under ideal conditions using my handloads.
My load is 40.9gr of Varget under a 180gr SMK using Federal brass and CCI BR-2 primers and it gives me 2605fps. The extreme spread was 9fps.
I'm not home to give you what the standard deviation was.

With my load expected barrel life is near 4,500 rounds so 50 rounds mean nothing in the bigger picture.

After barrel break in I don't clean the rifle till the groups begin to open up which is usually 150-180 rounds or when I can no longer stand looking at the carbon on the muzzle brake.