BART cops with M4's

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atek3

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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/10/23/BARTSWAT.TMP

Passengers did plenty of double-takes Friday morning as BART police Sgts. Eugene Wong and Kevin Franklin, carrying assault rifles and gas masks and clad in SWAT uniforms, made their way through the Balboa Park station in San Francisco.

"D-a-a-a-amn!" exclaimed Stephan Lee, 40, as the sergeants strode past him on the platform. "This isn't even the airport!"

Bernedette Bell, 40, had a similar reaction. At first, she thought that something was wrong. But Franklin reassured her, "Just high-profile patrol right now."

The transit agency has had a special weapons and tactics team -- commonly known as SWAT -- for many years, and regular BART officers have been on heightened alert since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

But for the first time, BART tactical officers, following the lead of transit agencies in cities such as Los Angeles, New York and Washington, began patrolling the system this week to deter potential terrorists as election day draws near. BART is the only transit agency in Northern California that is deploying SWAT officers on a routine basis.

No specific threats have been reported to BART or any other transit agency, but authorities don't want to take any chances, said BART Police Chief Gary Gee.

"For months, there has been a national security concern that a terrorist attack will disrupt the upcoming elections," Gee said.

That's why Franklin, 34, and Wong, 42, spent several hours Friday getting on and off trains as they made their way from BART police headquarters at the Lake Merritt station in Oakland to San Francisco International Airport.

They were met by plenty of quizzical stares and some raised eyebrows as they inspected various stations, peeked out the doors of some trains and walked the length of others, looking for anything amiss.

Franklin used the muzzle of his rifle at one point to look under a pile of newspapers on a seat.

"Is that yours?" Wong asked a bearded man, who looked at a green bag on a train seat and nodded.

As a train hurtled toward San Francisco, Wong asked the same question of Antonio Nieves, 55, of Oakland. "It's my lunch," Nieves said sheepishly of a plastic bag sitting at his feet.

"I think these guys are doing a pretty good job," Nieves said.

At the Balboa Park station, Joel Mansfield, 22, of San Francisco doffed his hat at the sergeants. "It's good to see you out here," he told them.

Franklin and Wong made a point of greeting riders with disarming smiles while at the same time keeping their fingers at the ready on their M-4 and AR-15 rifles.

"How are you? How are you doing?" they said repeatedly. They waved to train operators as they pulled into stations.

Wong, a nine-year BART police veteran, turned serious when he saw a man, apparently late, trying to wedge open the doors to a train. "Don't hold open the door," Wong said sternly.

BART train operator Heidi Quinonez, 31, riding to the San Francisco airport, said the patrols are comforting. "I know they're looking for suspicious people or suspicious packages," she said. "It feels safe."

The sergeants told riders who chatted with them to notify police if they see anything suspicious.

The high-visibility patrols, which include explosive-detecting K-9 units and volunteers in fluorescent vests, might continue after election day, BART police said.

"We don't want terrorists to think, 'Cool, after the election we can do anything we want to do,' " said Franklin, a former Oakland police officer and eight-year veteran of the BART force.

The special patrols will also be done at different times of the day throughout the 43-station system, which runs through four counties.

"We decided to have officers do random sweeps," Wong said. "If terrorists want to scope us out, we didn't want them to see our routine."

BART's SWAT team, consisting of 18 officers, two medics and a commander, used to be called SPAR, for the Special Problems and Rescue team. But too many people were confused. "They thought it was a boxing team or something," Gee said.
 
No specific threats have been reported to BART or any other transit agency, but authorities don't want to take any chances, said BART Police Chief Gary Gee.
Translation: "No specific threats have been reported to BART or any other transit agency, but authorities are just trying to get the subjects acclimated to a police state." :rolleyes:
 
Translation: "No specific threats have been reported to BART or any other transit agency, but authorities are just trying to get the subjects acclimated to a police state."

Oh puh-lease :rolleyes: God forbid we actually ramp up security in certain high risk areas. My God what a horrendous idea!! Guys with GUNS are always bad.....especially when they work for the....government ......

*looks around and puts tinfoil hat on*
 
God forbid we actually ramp up security in certain high risk areas.
God forbid .gov lets citizens be concerned with their own security instead of big brother knowing better how to "take care of us" for our own good. A bunch of (I'm sure very capable) guys walking around with M4s does not make a secure country. No offence intended friend, but I'd rather keep the right to take care of myself.

I just wonder how easy it would be to get a CCW in SF (or NJ for that matter)?
 
only 8 permits are issued in SF.

The funniest is how little bart cops know about their guns. My friend asked what kind of M16 the guy was holding, the guy said, "an M16 M16." So I asked my friend "was the stock fixed or collapsable" , "Collapsable",
Ahhh, M4... not m16.

atek3
 
No offence intended friend, but I'd rather keep the right to take care of myself.

As would I. In fact everyone should be able to take their own safety in their own hands without depending on the government, but you can't tell me that is even remotely the case. Also taking care of yourself is one thing, but there is nothing wrong with having highly trained personel around with the right gear (since I doubt you carry around an M4, body armor, restraints, etc. with you everywhere) in order to deal with any threat or emergency should one occur. I doubt that you or any other responsible citizen would be hanging around looking to apprehend terrorists or criminals in the event of a problem, or really looking out for those people without the ability to defend themselves.
 
but you can't tell me that is even remotely the case.
Q: "I just wonder how easy it would be to get a CCW in SF (or NJ for that matter)?"

A: "only 8 permits are issued in SF."

From the article: "Passengers did plenty of double-takes Friday morning as BART police Sgts. Eugene Wong and Kevin Franklin, carrying assault rifles and gas masks and clad in SWAT uniforms, made their way through the Balboa Park station in San Francisco. "

Sounds like it is to me. Citizens are denied the right to protect themselves and the government thinks that a detail of SWAT officers makes up for this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for arming the police, but to the *same* extent as the citizens are allowed to be armed, not in lieu of it. The day that I'm allowed to legally carry my AR in my trunk and my 1911 on my belt *everywhere* I go, is the day I'll feel good about seeing well armed SWAT officers on every street corner.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for arming the police, but to the *same* extent as the citizens are allowed to be armed, not in lieu of it. The day I'll feel good about seeing armed SWAT officers on every street corner is the day that I won't get a hassle for legally carrying my AR in my trunk and my 1911 on my belt *everywhere* I go.

I'm all for that, but the fact you're leaving out is even if anybody was allowed to CCW license, permit, or Vermont/Alaska style the great majority of people will not choose to do so. Unfortunately it seems that the majority of people in this country do not value their lives enough to see that they're properly protected at all times. If that day ever DOES come I hope I live to see it.
 
Indianapolis

IPD oficers had a walking beat in downtown near and around the Mall, Convention Center, all the 5 star hotels, RCA dome, Conseco field house, the circle and the state capital building.
I believe it was for less than 2 weeks and only this one time. Happened maybe 16-20 months ago and well before the one POTUS visit.
They where only there for visibility. 2 or 3 pairs of oficers.
I can se now it was never a serious effort.
 
I would take the opportunity to talk guns with them. I am a black rifle addict, and love talking about my favorite rifle system, the AR-15 series. :D

I have to wonder about BART putting their supposedly best trained personnell out in the open like this, for everyone to see. I would think that would be operationally.....unsound. :confused:
 
As a train hurtled toward San Francisco, Wong asked the same question of Antonio Nieves, 55, of Oakland. "It's my lunch," Nieves said sheepishly of a plastic bag sitting at his feet.

"I think these guys are doing a pretty good job," Nieves said.

Great example of how things can only get safer; adopt a sheepish demeaner with authorities, then immediately re-engage tunnel vision safety.

I would take the opportunity to talk guns with them. I am a black rifle addict, and love talking about my favorite rifle system, the AR-15 series.

Just make sure to maintain your sheepish demeaner, as the gentleman in the above example did. Oh, and don't show too much interest in the black rifles either, I hear that's becoming more and more of a detainable offense when dealing with authorities these days. But if we're innocent, we've got nothing to hide, right?
 
Haha, I was on BART on Wednesday and saw 3 of those guys (around 10pm). I was sitting on a bench talking to friends across the aisle heading to Oakland and suddenly my field of vision was filled with M4s... (o_O)

I didn't get a good look at them as they went straight into the next car, but I did notice the collapsible stock and carbine-length handguards. Good trigger discipline, too.

Shoulder patches said 'BART POLICE TACTICAL TEAM' :scrutiny:
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for arming the police, but to the *same* extent as the citizens are allowed to be armed, not in lieu of it. The day that I'm allowed to legally carry my AR in my trunk and my 1911 on my belt *everywhere* I go, is the day I'll feel good about seeing well armed SWAT officers on every street corner.

Depending on where you live, this is already a reality.

I mostly agree with your statement, but scratch out "AR" and substitute "full-auto unregistered M4". Down with the NFA :D.

As for all the "police state" paranoia, I think it's overblown. The average duty cop has an autoloading handgun on his belt, and no one thinks anything of it. Why should an M4 be any different?
 
...BART tactical officers, following the lead of transit agencies in cities such as Los Angeles, New York and Washington, began patrolling the system this week to deter potential terrorists as election day draws near.

If we were even remotely concerned about terrorists, we'd have started to pay attention to the borders a long, long time ago.
 
Wearing my "Pollyanna" hat -

How many people in SF have ever fired a rifle? How many have ever seen a black rifle in actuality, rather than on television?

What proportion of San Franciscans, and residents of Oakland, Berkeley, Hayward, Fremont, &c., &c., &c. have never even handled any kind of firearm themselves? More than in the average American town, I'd say.

Here we have a report of the BART Police putting rifles out in public, within view of tens of thousands of riders a month, and I'm going to speculate that none of the rifles will be misused. I don't mind the prospect of a whole bunch of Bay Area residents developing a faint, visceral impression that weapons are not Wayward Lightning Bolts of Doom, sowing random destruction wherever they exist.

It's not a big thing, but I think that it's something.

[/Pollyanna]
 
But for the first time, BART tactical officers, following the lead of transit agencies in cities such as Los Angeles, New York and Washington, began patrolling the system this week to deter potential terrorists as election day draws near.

Besides me, who here thinks that terrorists will change their plans to kill thousands of people because of two well-armed officers on patrol?:rolleyes:
 
I'm all for local Law Enforcement getting the tools they need to protect the community at large, such as assault weapons and gas masks.

My pet peeve is cops dressed in BDU's.

Police officers need to be in blue.

People wearing camo and carring machine guns are the "Army".

The "Army" has NO BUSINESS conducting L.E. activities in the domestic / public sector.
 
I saw these guys on Friday afternoon at the Montgomery St. BART station. It was causing quite a stir on the platform. I can't say I felt safer. BART is very vulnerable and I worry going through the tube everyday.
 
Here's the link to the story with the pics. madkiwi saw these guys at the Montgomery station on Thurs. and Friday.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/23/MNGKA9F73J1.DTL

Here's what he posted somewhere else:
I saw this on Thursday at Montgomery St BART. I was going down the escalator on my way home and saw a cop standing by the ticket agent booth. My hair went up on my neck when I saw that the guy was not dressed like a standard BART cop. Jackboots, tactical vest etc. Did not see a sub-gun. You know BART Police is where you go when you get washed out of University of California campus police school and Loomis armoured car weren't hiring that day.

Then Friday morning also at Montgomery I was going up the escalator and 3 BART special-forces, mall-ninjas were going down on the other side carrying MP5s, with forward grips, Surefire lights etc. That wigged me out. Coming home in the evening I saw more, one with an MP5 and one with a AR15 carbine length with the 9mm upper (looked goofy, had an A2 buttstock).

It annoys the ???? out of me, when they start making me go through a metal detector or want to search my bag I'll start driving into the city- or leave altogether.


Doh! didn't see the link staring me in the face at the top of the thread...
 
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