EOD Guy
Member
Don't Tread On Me said:
BATF doesn't regulate alcohol or tobacco anymore, notwithstanding their name. They haven't since they were transferred to the Department of Justice.
BATFE does it again more NICS checks
- Thread starter shooting time
- Start date
- Status
BATF doesn't regulate alcohol or tobacco anymore, notwithstanding their name. They haven't since they were transferred to the Department of Justice.
Called my state rep's office today about this and was given a number to the GBI. Called the GBI and got the run around. In general, I got a lot of run around trying to find more info on this, and who can help us change it back.
I'm going to put in a call to the Chairman of the Gwinnett County Republican party this afternoon to see what we can do. He's also a member of the NRA-ILA group.
I'm going to put in a call to the Chairman of the Gwinnett County Republican party this afternoon to see what we can do. He's also a member of the NRA-ILA group.
I was always under the impression that the GBI ran your name against the NCIS when getting the permit. I guess I was wrong there.
This just makes it more of a pain to buy a perectly legal item.
Part of the reason that I got the permit was to not have to wait and pay $5 extra when I bought a new firearm.
What happens when the 'system is down' like it has been many times when I was buying a firearm? I used to smile, hand over my permit and go on my way. Now I will be subject to that as well.
This is a further unecessary encroachment upon my constitutional rights. I thought it was bad when BATFE started requiring a phone number when purchasing a new firearm but this is just ludicrious.
Does anyone know who we could contact within the state government to get more information?
Arg...
This just makes it more of a pain to buy a perectly legal item.
Part of the reason that I got the permit was to not have to wait and pay $5 extra when I bought a new firearm.
What happens when the 'system is down' like it has been many times when I was buying a firearm? I used to smile, hand over my permit and go on my way. Now I will be subject to that as well.
This is a further unecessary encroachment upon my constitutional rights. I thought it was bad when BATFE started requiring a phone number when purchasing a new firearm but this is just ludicrious.
Does anyone know who we could contact within the state government to get more information?
Arg...
petrel800...
How about sharing the info you get on who to contact in Gwinnett County?
I would like to know who to talk to as well.
On the other hand, DeKalb county's judges delay signing the permits for so long that you could have an entire criminal career between applying for a permit and receiving it. Averages about 6 months.....
Seriously, wonder if the massive under-funding of the GBI and it's backlog of work had anything to do with this??
How about sharing the info you get on who to contact in Gwinnett County?
I would like to know who to talk to as well.
On the other hand, DeKalb county's judges delay signing the permits for so long that you could have an entire criminal career between applying for a permit and receiving it. Averages about 6 months.....
Seriously, wonder if the massive under-funding of the GBI and it's backlog of work had anything to do with this??
Been doing some research, and it seems that this is happening in more places than just GA.
It seems that GA, NV, Norther Mariana Islands, and the US Virgin Islands have all been issued the same letter from the BATF.
Also, Alaska has received a different letter regarding the markings on the permits. You'll have to forgive me because I am unsure of what an Alaska permit looks like or their proceedure for getting one.
It looks like the BATF now has the power over gun transactions for a good part of the United States. The link below reveals the letters and states affected by this.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/bradylaw/index.htm
It seems that GA, NV, Norther Mariana Islands, and the US Virgin Islands have all been issued the same letter from the BATF.
Also, Alaska has received a different letter regarding the markings on the permits. You'll have to forgive me because I am unsure of what an Alaska permit looks like or their proceedure for getting one.
It looks like the BATF now has the power over gun transactions for a good part of the United States. The link below reveals the letters and states affected by this.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/bradylaw/index.htm
solareclipse
Member
The reason is not that the initial clearance is insufficient, but that once the permit is issued, for 5 years, there is no way to ensure you haven't screwed up and it is void. It is not checked at the time of sale...
that's all.
that's all.
bg
Member
I remember reading about a situation just recently in NV.
It would seem to me that unless you are found guilty of a felony in a court of law, then there is no need to keep rechecking it. I would also hope that when you are convicted of a crime, the folks down at the state would have access to if a permit needed to be revoked or not.
farscott
Member
Does any state's permit meet this "standard"? I would think not since the idea of using a permit in lieu of the NICS was that an individual with a permit was presumed to have completed a more thorough background check than the NICS. In any event, the use of any permit in lieu of NICS would not meet the need to see if the permit has been voided since no check is made at the time of the transfer.
TallPine
Member
Well, I just hope all the lawn order and "I'm so glad felons can't buy guns" folks are happy when one or more of the following occurs:
1) NICS mysteriously just shuts down and never comes back up again
2) Congress defunds the NICS system (as it did the system to restore rights)
3) President Whathisorhernameis announces a "national emergency" (indefinite - like the War on Terror) and shuts down the NICS system for "national security" purposes
4) some variation of the above....
At any rate, no more civilian gun sales, and all gun stores are out of business and their inventory effectively worthless.
Don't say you haven't been warned.
1) NICS mysteriously just shuts down and never comes back up again
2) Congress defunds the NICS system (as it did the system to restore rights)
3) President Whathisorhernameis announces a "national emergency" (indefinite - like the War on Terror) and shuts down the NICS system for "national security" purposes
4) some variation of the above....
At any rate, no more civilian gun sales, and all gun stores are out of business and their inventory effectively worthless.
Don't say you haven't been warned.
solareclipse said:
This is precisely what the CONGRESS authorized in 18 USC 922 (t)(3). The last I heard, CONGRESS not ATF sets federal policy. CONGRESS thinks that a BC every "5 years" is sufficient.
Remember almost all bad guys have a disqualifying record by the time they are 21. They don't get suddenly worse, they remain the same.
Borachon
Member
Funny how during times of emergency the NICS always seems to "fail". Anyone else ever noticed this? I suppose one of these days we'll have an emergency that lasts two months...and no one will be able to buy a gun because the "computers are down".
They just didn't like the CCW loophole and are trying to close it.
They just didn't like the CCW loophole and are trying to close it.
shooting time
Member
I found out that it happened in 9 other states. I think they are trying to stop gun shows sales . If it takes a couple of days to get a normal NICS check that will put a stop to sales at gun shows.And next is other states will cancel the reporicity for our carry permits.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Great link for general NICS information in plain English
The letter from the ATF identifies the problem as the Georgia alternative to NICS. Under NICS, a state may substitute its own instant-check system so long as it meets certain base-criteria established by the law. According to the ATF they began a review of all states with their own systems in March 2004 to insure they still qualified to meet NICS standards. They informed Georgia that they no longer met these standards in May 2005 and gave them until September 2005. Georgia did not change anything and so ATF disqualified them.
If I were living in Georgia or Nevada, I would want to conduct the agency responsible for carrying out these checks and ask them what they are using my CHL fees and NICS fees to fund since they apparently aren't using them to do background checks sufficient to please the ATF. I don't know if Georgia charges fees for their state alternative but I know Nevada does. I called then "NICS fees" but NICS is actually free. The fees charged are usually used to fund the state alternative check system.
Texas has a background check only every five years and still is able to substitute its CHL for the NICS check. There is a lot of commentary in this thread; but considering how widely available and open the information on this subject is, there isn't much informed commentary.
Here is the relevant section of the law:
"`(C)(i) the transferee has presented to the transferor a permit that--
`(I) allows the transferee to possess or acquire a handgun; and
`(II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and
`(ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a handgun by the transferee would be in violation of the law;"
If your state is one of those that does not verify this information on a not more than five years basis, then your CHL is no longer valid as a substitute for NICS. Many of you seem to be complaining about the ATF enforcing the law as it has been written for 10+ years now rather than complaining that the fees you are paying to your state governments to fund these checks aren't being used for that purpose apparently.
ATF lists letters to 3 states and 2 territories on their website (and only two of those states are affected by the background check issue). What is the source for your claim that this is happening in nine other states?
Seriously, how about instead of a lot of uninformed speculation about what we think might be going on, we take an extra five minutes to try and share solid facts with each other? We can then figure out what the problem is so we know the appropiate place to focus our efforts in fixing it.
The letter from the ATF identifies the problem as the Georgia alternative to NICS. Under NICS, a state may substitute its own instant-check system so long as it meets certain base-criteria established by the law. According to the ATF they began a review of all states with their own systems in March 2004 to insure they still qualified to meet NICS standards. They informed Georgia that they no longer met these standards in May 2005 and gave them until September 2005. Georgia did not change anything and so ATF disqualified them.
If I were living in Georgia or Nevada, I would want to conduct the agency responsible for carrying out these checks and ask them what they are using my CHL fees and NICS fees to fund since they apparently aren't using them to do background checks sufficient to please the ATF. I don't know if Georgia charges fees for their state alternative but I know Nevada does. I called then "NICS fees" but NICS is actually free. The fees charged are usually used to fund the state alternative check system.
Texas has a background check only every five years and still is able to substitute its CHL for the NICS check. There is a lot of commentary in this thread; but considering how widely available and open the information on this subject is, there isn't much informed commentary.
Here is the relevant section of the law:
"`(C)(i) the transferee has presented to the transferor a permit that--
`(I) allows the transferee to possess or acquire a handgun; and
`(II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and
`(ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a handgun by the transferee would be in violation of the law;"
If your state is one of those that does not verify this information on a not more than five years basis, then your CHL is no longer valid as a substitute for NICS. Many of you seem to be complaining about the ATF enforcing the law as it has been written for 10+ years now rather than complaining that the fees you are paying to your state governments to fund these checks aren't being used for that purpose apparently.
ATF lists letters to 3 states and 2 territories on their website (and only two of those states are affected by the background check issue). What is the source for your claim that this is happening in nine other states?
Seriously, how about instead of a lot of uninformed speculation about what we think might be going on, we take an extra five minutes to try and share solid facts with each other? We can then figure out what the problem is so we know the appropiate place to focus our efforts in fixing it.
Flyboy
Member
You want to know what the problem is? The problem is politicians and "administrative law enforcement officials" who seem to regard the Constitution as nothing more than rolling paper for their drug of choice, raw power. You want to know how to fix it? Start removing politicians from office if they don't hold BATFE to constitutional standards of conduct.
There's the truth. Anything less is BS.
shooting time
Member
I guess i was mis informed by another FFL dealer who told me he heard 9 states were affected by this .Ga does not have a NICS alternative anymore The GBI used to do the checks for us if you didn't have a CWP and they charged 5.00 for each check.All I can say is try and sell a gun at a gun show and see if you get a responce back from NICS before 3 days.Thats their loophole for ending gunshows.
farscott
Member
With respect to Georgia, there seem to be two separate issues:
1) The GBI is no longer performing checks that are a valid substitute for NICS, and
2) The Georgia Pistol License permit process does not comply with the requirements that allow it to be used in place of NICS.
It is the latter issue that concerns me, and I have not been able to find what part of the Georgia permit process is "not up to snuff". A Georgia permit is valid for five years and a complete (federal, state, and local) background check is performed at each renewal.
1) The GBI is no longer performing checks that are a valid substitute for NICS, and
2) The Georgia Pistol License permit process does not comply with the requirements that allow it to be used in place of NICS.
It is the latter issue that concerns me, and I have not been able to find what part of the Georgia permit process is "not up to snuff". A Georgia permit is valid for five years and a complete (federal, state, and local) background check is performed at each renewal.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Hawkman, did Bob Barr seem to think this was something we could get changed?
We really need someone who will spearhead getting this BATF reversed. I am not sure who to even complain to about this.
We need to get other GA CCW holders together, and get this changed. Being able to avoid a NICS check every time I bought a gun was a major reason I got the permit in the first place!
We really need someone who will spearhead getting this BATF reversed. I am not sure who to even complain to about this.
We need to get other GA CCW holders together, and get this changed. Being able to avoid a NICS check every time I bought a gun was a major reason I got the permit in the first place!
solareclipse
Member
petrel800 said:
however they have no way to check that. instead of making another state side system for the FFL to check again (which in turn is the same as nics...) you can't know the current status. all they did is write the permit number on the 4473 and nobody would know you bought anything unless they do an audit on the ffl.
again, the only logical explanation would be the update rate of the NICS vs state records. there was no system to propagade changes to your permit and nobody wanted to make one.
wouldn't think it was anything to do with the initial procedure. on a side note, there has been some animosity between the FBI and GBI as of late which we can now see affecting everybody.
- Status
