Battle Rifle Defined

[Sam1911]

But the battle rifle is nothing but a subset of the assualt rifle

How can that possibly be? A battle rifle (whether you choose to consider bolt-actions as well, or just semis) is, by definition, larger and fires a cartridge MORE powerful that what an assault rifle can fire. How can a battle rifle then be a sub-set of assalut rifles, if it doesn't meet the two most important criteria for being one at all?

while NATO uses the 5.56 round and the US sticks to the M16 family of rifles, no other country does. The rest of the world uses AK's, FN Fal's, or G3's.

Please provide some statistcs showing what the other (major?) countries of the world are issuing. I don't think a very large number of foreign armies still field FALs or G3s.

I can get you started:
China uses the interesting Type 95 in 5.8x42mm.
Several countries are going to variations of the HK36 (still in 5.56mm)
Japan uses their own Type 89, which is close to the old AR-18
And so on.

Here: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as72-e.htm

There's a lot of stuff out there...

-Sam

 

[Art Eatman]

Nomenclature and terminology change over time. The term "battle rifle" was common and apropos back around WW II and Korea. As the years went by, more assault-style, carbine-length rifles with medium-powered cartridges came on the scene. As they were adopted by military organizations, the meanings got blurred.

If by "battle rifle" one means a full-sized rifle with a full-power cartridge of the sort used in WW II, the M16 ain't it. Nor the AK. Doesn't matter how many millions are used.

If by "battle rifle" one means the rifle used by somebody's military, then, yeah, an M16 is a battle rifle.

Why worry about it, one way or the other? It doesn't matter any more...

 

[Rshooter]

I believe it does matter. If you are going to start making statements about a battle rifle, assault rifle, or a sub machine gun it would be best to know the correct terminology.

Sam nailed it on the first page. These terms have been around longer than some of us.

 

[JR47]

http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/ar.html

This might help by discussing what isn't a Battle Rifle.

 

[Hatterasguy]

The problem is the nomenclature gets confusing, also AFAIK their is no "official" definition anywhere.

As I understand it the battle rifle is a subset of assualt rifles because it was derived from the assualt rifle.


First you have to define a battle rifle, I define it as such: A semi or fully automatic rifle, thats mag feed and fires a full power rifle cartridge.

Using this definition the battle rifle is a subset of the modern assualt rifle which was born in the early 40's. Both are essentialy the same thing they just use different rounds.


Either way its one of those debates you have sitting around with beers, thats never really done with.

 

[Sam1911]

As I understand it the battle rifle is a subset of assualt rifles because it was derived from the assualt rifle.

Are you saying that the designers who made the first prototypes of the FAL and M-14, and SVT-38/40, and CETME, and so forth derived them from the STG-40, AK-47, and similar guns? I don't think history bears out that theory.

If nothing else, the AVS-36 was adopted for use by the Soviets in 1936, and the SVT-38 was in 1938, but had been in development since the 'teens.

The M1 Garand was also adopted in '36 after a decade or so in development.

Go back juuuust a hair and you have Mondragon's M1908 beating 'most everyone to the punch with a fairly workable "main battle rifle." And yes, that was in 1908. (Though only the Mexican Army had the foresight to adopt them, even though they had to have the Swiss build them.)

By that standard, the Germans' development of the "intermediate" cartridge -- the foundation upon which the very concept of an "assault rifle" is built -- didn't come along until the mid '30s and they didn't have anything to shoot such a thing out of until 1942.

So, not to belabor the point, "main battle rifles" aren't derived from or a subset of assault rifles.

-Sam

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

In my opinion, these fit the description

Battle Rifle: FAL, M14/M1A, G3, AR10, etc... basically any semi auto with a detachable mag that is chambered in .308 or similar calibers.

Battle Carbine: AR15, AK47, AUG, ACR, etc... basically any semi auto with detachable mags that is chambered in 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45 or other similar intermediate cartridges.

 

[cavman]

I bought two of these Battle Rifles for my brother's little kids

http://nerfguns.org/nerf-n-strike-longshot-cs-6

They come with "Clips" but they now know to call them "Magazines"

 

[CornCod]

Some people get emotionally caught up in the battle rifle definition issue because they think that assault rifles are somehow a lesser species of combat implement. I don't think that most people who use the term "battle rifle" feel that way except some really hidebound reactionaries.