Bauer .25 occaisional feed failure

[Steven C Panish]

Hi all,

I believe this issue is a feed ramp problem, but I am looking for advice on how to correct it.

This Bauer was totally non-functional when I bought it, and it was dimensionally challenged and otherwise broken. I'll spare you the irrelevant details, but I am many $$ and hours into turning this into a working piece. It is very cute. But if fails to feed about once per 10 rounds. There is never a failure to feed when manually racking the slide. Never.

The magazine is a quality replacement from PSA made by Mec-Gar. The original Bauer mag was bent up beyond my ability to repair, but was shorter than the standard Browning Baby mags by .013". Two other Bauer mags that I tried also were too long. These, and the PSA mag all would bind the slide. I replaced the floorplate of the new mag with a handmade piece that provides the corrected shorter length, the magazine now does not bind the slide. I also had to very slightly enlarge the top of the magazine well.

You can see the nature of the failure to feed from the attached photos. This occurs about once in 10 shots, and doesn't seem to relate to the order of the cartridge in the mag. The bullet nose rises too fast and passes the chamber opening, lodging either against the top of the chamber, or between the top of the barrel and the slide. The cartridge base has not yet reached the mag feed lips release point, the nose of the cartridge has spun up while still confined by the narrow part of the feed lips. This is a bit difficult to see in the pictures, but if you look carefully and maybe magnify the image, you can see that.

The feed ramp on the chamber is very smooth and uniform. The frame's feed ramp is very slightly proud to the chamber ramp. It has some circular machine marks or slight ridges which run perpendicular to the bore. I polished the frame ramp with 1200 emery paper, which makes the ramp very smooth but did not eliminate the slight ridges. You can just barely see them in the photo. I left the gun fouled for the photo so you can see some marks which may result from the impact point of the bullet nose on the frame ramp.

I think the mag feed lips look ok and hold the cartridge in the correct place, but I'm no expert. The cartridges are all handloads using either Magtech or Federal 50gr FMJ. The load is 1.2 gr Bullseye. Going down .1 gr makes it too weak to always fully work the action, going up to 1.3 is really kind of hot. Varying OAL does nothing. The cases are all very well used with beat up bases at this point and I should try some new ones. I could also try a slightly slower powder, but haven't yet.

I suspect modification of the frame ramp is in order but I haven't found anything which tells me how it should relate to the chamber ramp in this silly (but cute) little gun. It is fun (if frustrating) to shoot. Points well and surprisingly accurate.

Help will be appreciated! I can take additional photos or conduct experiments if that would help.

Steve

 

[LoneGoose]

Mr. Panish, I own nine of these delightful little pistols, and have seen the problem you describe. I see that you are handloading. We have to eliminate that from the equation by using only factory loads while correcting your problem. I feel that the magazine is your problem. I have tried aftermarket mags in my guns and just don't like them. This doesn't mean that you can't use them, just they might have to be altered. I even had to adjust the feed lips on a Bauer magazine. Anyway, I have corrected the problem by opening the feed lips a little bit on the forward third of the lips. This is a "a little goes a long way" adjustment.

I also have noticed that if one of my guns slows down when I'm using it, I can take off the slide and oil the works in the grip frame. that gets it up to speed. If your slide doesn't retract all the way, you can get a jam like yours. A good way to tell is if it doesn't cock the firing pin. not cocked, no full travel - bad feed process.

Lastly, you may have to replace the recoil spring.

I wouldn't change the feed ramp.

Good luck and please let us know how it goes.

 

[Odd Job]

I had that exact failure with my Baby Browning.
Turned out to be a magazine feed lips issue. The lips were splayed and I squeezed them in a little. Problem solved!

 

[Steven C Panish]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

LoneGoose, there is never a failure to cock with the 1.2 grain load. It may be visible in one of the photos that the firing pin is not protruding. I have been keeping an eye on the lubrication because of the tendency of 4140 to gall. I've attempted to replicate the problem by hand releasing the slide in slightly different positions, no luck. I'll try it w/o the recoil spring. I take your point with factory ammo but that too is a crap shoot. Have you found any brands to be particularly good or bad?

The problem may well be with the mag feed lips but I am feeling a bit cowardly about doing any major surgery on them. I will try squeezing them in very slightly as per Odd Job's report. Unfortunately, unaltered mags bind the slide due to this pistol's off-spec depth. The Bauer mags don't have a removable floor plate so I can't alter them. I could remove a bit of the magazine latch to allow the mag to sit a bit lower and use unaltered mags. I am planning to do that once I have the thing working reliably.

thanks,

Steve

 

[wbbh]

I have two Bauers and several other .25ACP mouse guns. They all shoot best with Fiocchi FMJ ammunition, subjectively, it seams to be loaded a little hotter than other brands, IMO, close to what these pistols are designed to shoot before liability lawyers got involved.

Magazines and pistols often have weak springs, try stretching them out little to see if that fixes the problem temporally, if it does, order some new springs. Also don't use too thick/heavy an oil or grease to lubricate these small pistols.

 

[Odd Job]

I have a radiograph of my magazine before the feed lips were squeezed. See here how the cartridge has a steep angle and the back of the follower is angled relative to the spine of the magazine.



Unfortunately I did not think to take another X-ray after I squeezed the feed lips up front, but I can tell you it cured the problem (at least for me).

 

[Steven C Panish]

Thanks all! Here is some more info. The feed lips seem to be the best suspect, although I believe this is a quality mag. It comes from PSA (Precision Small Arms), who currently has manufacturing rights for the Baby. It is the modern design with the curved follower. You can see from the photo that the resting position of a cartridge looks good. However, by manually pushing the cartridge forward incrementally, and then exerting upward force on the bullet nose, it is clear that the nose wants to flip up well before the cartridge base reaches the release point. This might be reduced if the lips were a bit closer together, confining the cartridge case a bit more.

Putting a mag in the pistol and pushing forward the cartridge until the bullet just touches the ramp, it is clear that there will be upward force on the bullet nose starting before the "flip point" is reached. See the photo which shows just when the bullet nose touches the ramp. It would seem that the tendency to flip could be reduced both by narrowing the feed lips, or moving forward the release point, or giving the frame ramp a more shallow angle.

The feed lips are the easiest place to start.

I took 4 measurements of the inside width of the lips, starting at the rear and ending at the release point where the mag lips are bent out:

.228, .235, .236, .236"

Now I have gently squeezed the lips in, but they are so thin I doubt they will stay:

.228, .226, .227, .224

Will test over the weekend. Sorry for ths suspense!

I also measured the cartrige case diameter in the approximate location where it will become prone to flipping: .274". Perhaps the rapid acceleration of the slide going forward spreads the lips enough. It sure doesn't take much force to make the cartrige flip up.

I will also pick up some Fiocchi ammo when I get a chance.

A high speed video camera would be really useful here.

Steve

 

[4v50 Gary]

Concur it is a mag lip issue.

 

[bannockburn]

Steven C Panish

Looked but couldn't find any .25 ammo here at home to check the feed lips of my Baby Browning magazine. Will try to get some ammo this weekend and then check the dimensions for you.

 

[Steven C Panish]

Bannockburn- It would be great to get the internal measurments of the feed lips. Less need for the ammo dimensions.

thanks,

Steve

 

[Steven C Panish]

Nope. 11 shots before the first failure to feed. I measured the lip spread again and they had opened up an average of about .005 from where I had left them. I squeezed them down a bit more than I had before. Failed almost immediately, I think the second shot.

Then it occurred to me that if the bullet was seated a bit deeper, it wouldn't hit the feed lips until the cartridge was closer to the release point. So I seated some to .870 OAL, which is the minimum. Got a batch of failures with that, worse than before.

After each failure I recheck the lips and they seem to always want to go back to about the original spread, likely with the measurement error, which I think is about .003. So they are currently around .235" (except for the very rearmost point of the mag, which is always less, around .230).

I am scratching my head.

Steve