Bazoo’s 44 special casual loading and adventures thread.

[Bazoo]

read lots of posts with loads using WSF powder which i found unexpected as its not usually associated with low pressure cartridges. WST on the other hand, which works so well in .45 acp, should be a very good fit. has anyone tried it?

WSF works good in 45 auto with 230 grain bullets, and that’s low pressure. I think it would be right at home in 44 special +P, in the 18-25k psi range. Problem is... no data.

 

[Shivahasagun]

When I had a Gp100 .44 Special, before I loaded ammo, I had a really hard time shooting it well.

First of all I didn't like the front sight and there was nothing else to replace it with.

A major part of the problem was the DA trigger. It was terrible. Very heavy, very clunky pull. I carefully polished and lubricated the contact points and installed only slightly lighter hammer and return springs.

A noticable difference but still far from "good".

With lots of shooting I'd do "okay" with the gun. But the next time a few weeks later I wouldn't shoot well again.

It also seemed to shoot jacketed bullets better than lead bullets. Then I learned about the end of the chambers often being too tight on these guns. Upon measuring I found that to be just the case. It was not going to shoot well with lead bullets without modification. I sold the gun to a buddy because I didn't like it anyway.

Now I have a Taurus 431 .44 Spl. I stumbled onto and enjoy it very much. Especially since I started loading.

Now I'm going to get the recent-production Bulldog .44 back from a family member and load for it.

I actually haven't loaded .44 Spl, only .44 Russian. Same thing just shorter.

I've been using 4.3 gr of 700x and a 200 gr cast bullet but I'll back off of that for the lightweight Bulldog. Probably start at 3.8 grs. I recall it being just a little snappy with the 4.3 gr load.

It also shot low, so may have either mod the front sight or use heavier bullets. Probably will go with heavier bullets.

PS: My LCR's, Colt, Taurus 431, and even the Bulldog all have far, far better triggers than a typical Gp100, Sp 101, or Redhawk. I've had 6 of these. None now. The LCR's and new Colt have excellent trigger pulls, however!

 

[Bazoo]

I had a gp100 in 357 and it had an okay trigger when I got it, and a nice trigger when I smoothed it up. My buddies sp101 has a smooth but heavy pull.

I would like a GP100 in 44 I think. Not sure really since I’ve never shot anything double action in 44 special. I would like a smith 24-3 more I think.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I had a gp100 in 357 and it had an okay trigger when I got it, and a nice trigger when I smoothed it up. My buddies sp101 has a smooth but heavy pull.

I would like a GP100 in 44 I think. Not sure really since I’ve never shot anything double action in 44 special. I would like a smith 24-3 more I think.

Yes, you probably will like that S&W more.

I agree the Sp101's so have a better trigger pull than the Gp100's for whatever reason.

I used to have a Taurus M44 .44 mag and fired plenty of mags and specials through it even though the trigger was poor. It deve6a problem after less than 1k rds. Taurus didn't fix it right and I sold it to a family member with full disclosure.

For whatever reason firing .44 Russian / Special is always a good time! (Well, anything above mild in a Charter Bulldog is not)

Then I took a chance on my Taurus 431 (pretty darn good trigger!) And .44 Russian was the first cartridge I reloaded.

And I find myself looking for excuses to shoot more .44 Spl and .44 Russian.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Speaking of .44 Special...I wish Winchester would make their 200 gr Silvertip Gen 2 available!

Not many are aware that around 2010? Or so Winchester redesigned the Silvertip in some calibers and became similar to the Ranger T bullet. T as in Talons.

I bought a couple boxes years ago and it was a terrible load. Very light recoil. Why? Because it chronographed between 550 (yea, 550 fps) and about 715 fps IIRC. Erratic junk at $1 a shot.

Too bad, good bullet. A few expanded for me even in a simple test at the low velocity. Although the one or two that didn't were probably at that < 600 fps velocity.

They haven't been available for several years now.

I haven't checked on 180 (or was that 200 gr?).429 Gold Dots. That's a good bullet happiest at 850 fps.

Great thing about .44 Spl. is lead hollow points are a good match and failing that even a wadcutter or any lead bullet at decent speed starts at .430 cal and will penetrate just fine.

I propose Colt create the "Boa" or "Moccasin" or "Super King Cobra". A 5-shot .44 Spl. King Cobra. 2, 3, and 4 inch.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I had a gp100 in 357 and it had an okay trigger when I got it, and a nice trigger when I smoothed it up. My buddies sp101 has a smooth but heavy pull.

I would like a GP100 in 44 I think. Not sure really since I’ve never shot anything double action in 44 special. I would like a smith 24-3 more I think.

I can certainly understand having two Gp100's, one in .44, if you already like the gun and caliber.

I don't know too much about that S&W but I do know the Gp100 can certainly handle the warmer .44 loads (255 gr 1000 fps) just fine.

But also, if you check out the Ruger forums, you'll find they seemingly all have tight chamber throats and will squeeze your bullets down to .4285-.429. Maybe newer batches are different but it's an issue worth looking into.

 

[Bazoo]

The smith 624 is an N frame and suitable for the heaviest 44 specials.

I’m totally fine with a revolver that has tight throats, that’s an easy fix. But large throats isn’t something that can be cured.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Speaking of .44 Special...I wish Winchester would make their 200 gr Silvertip Gen 2 available!

Not many are aware that around 2010? Or so Winchester redesigned the Silvertip in some calibers and became similar to the Ranger T bullet. T as in Talons.

I bought a couple boxes years ago and it was a terrible load. Very light recoil. Why? Because it chronographed between 550 (yea, 550 fps) and about 715 fps IIRC. Erratic junk at $1 a shot.

Too bad, good bullet. A few expanded for me even in a simple test at the low velocity. Although the one or two that didn't were probably at that < 600 fps velocity.

They haven't been available for several years now.

I haven't checked on 180 (or was that 200 gr?).429 Gold Dots. That's a good bullet happiest at 850 fps.

Great thing about .44 Spl. is lead hollow points are a good match and failing that even a wadcutter or any lead bullet at decent speed starts at .430 cal and will penetrate just fine.

I propose Colt create the "Boa" or "Moccasin" or "Super King Cobra". A 5-shot .44 Spl. King Cobra. 2, 3, and 4 inch.

Here's a few of my favorites in the 200gr range:

On the right is a Sierra 210gr. JHC. This bullet is designed to plow through bone and gristle, innards and muscle, without coming apart. Expansion really isn't an issue. It's a plow. The tip's expansion is there to increase the damage on the way through an animal, not prevent over-penetration. This is a hunting bullet. It needs a lot of velocity to do it's job, upwards of 1300fps.
In the middle is the current production Speer 200gr. GDHP. This bullet is designed to open up in flesh and penetrate only deeply enough to create a trauma wound and stop an attacker mid-swing. The tip and body open up very quickly in flesh but it's not a bone-crusher. This is a defense bullet. It is optimized for a 3" barrel and only needs 750fps to go to work.
On the left is a Bull-X 190gr. LSWC. This bullet is designed to cut clean holes in paper and hold the rifling of a "typical" long-barreled revolver. It is advertised as 12BHN and a 3mm ball-point punch confirms this is pretty close if not right on. This is a target bullet and only needs 550fps for best accuracy.
Of them all, the LSWC is the closest to a good all-around, general-purpose bullet when driven to 800fps +/-50fps. I've driven them up to 900fps using a stiff load of Blue Dot and have no doubt such a load will stop an attacker. The tip does tend to mushroom, but it's not good for controlled expansion; it bounces against bone, deforms and changes direction in flesh. The wound cavity is just plain ugly. If I were loading for a 3" .44Spl like the Taurus 443, Rossi 720, or Charter Bulldog/Boomer, this would be my bullet of choice with either Unique or Accurate No.5 loaded sufficient for a 750-800fps velocity at 10ft.
The Blue Dot load I currently use with this bullet is very accurate at 25yards but is way too loud and flashy for indoors defense or civil social situations - and it is blinding in the dark. It's use is strictly for outdoors carry and a long barrel, 6" or longer.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The Specials for those 200gr bullets.

 

[Bazoo]

Reading some of sixguns, I seen mentioned 6.5 bullseye and the Keith bullet. Does anyone know what kind of pressure that would run?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Reading some of sixguns, I seen mentioned 6.5 bullseye and the Keith bullet. Does anyone know what kind of pressure that would run?

According to the Lymans 48th, around 13,500 CUP.

 

[Bazoo]

According to the Lymans 48th, around 13,500 CUP.

Youve got to be mistaken. My Lyman 49 lists 4.8 bullseye, 429421, at 12,500 cup. I don’t have a 48th.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Youve got to be mistaken. My Lyman 49 lists 4.8 bullseye, 429421, at 12,500 cup. I don’t have a 48th.

I am mistaken. That’s the pressure for Unique, not Bullseye. Sorry, brain fart. The 48th doesn’t list any load for the #429421 and Bullseye. Unique is the accuracy load at 6.9gr for around 760fps.

 

[PapaG]

I have been loading 44 special since 1956 and still have my Lyman 429421 mould. I picked up a hollow point version around 1970 and fooled around with it enough to come up with a great load.
I took an expander ball from an old 45 Colt die and ground it down until the inside of a fired case would measure about .432". Bullets, cast from pure lead, sized, lubed and then tumble lubed. Unique powder to get about 700 fps. Seat, crimp and then run just far enough into a sizing die to allow cartridge to slip into cylinder. Expansion, outstanding. Dispatched a groundhog in a cage trap once. Shot in top of head. No kicking or scrabbling around. Eyeballs out of skull. No leading.
Most of my work has been with a gen 2 SAA New Frontier, A Bulldog and my pet 4" 624.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have been loading 44 special since 1956 and still have my Lyman 429421 mould. I picked up a hollow point version around 1970 and fooled around with it enough to come up with a great load.
I took an expander ball from an old 45 Colt die and ground it down until the inside of a fired case would measure about .432". Bullets, cast from pure lead, sized, lubed and then tumble lubed. Unique powder to get about 700 fps. Seat, crimp and then run just far enough into a sizing die to allow cartridge to slip into cylinder. Expansion, outstanding. Dispatched a groundhog in a cage trap once. Shot in top of head. No kicking or scrabbling around. Eyeballs out of skull. No leading.
Most of my work has been with a gen 2 SAA New Frontier, A Bulldog and my pet 4" 624.

I've had a couple of Charter Bulldogs and a Boomer. I've found them all to be very forgiving of ammo differences. They are not forgiving to my wrist or palm, though. A 700fps load with a 240grain-ish bullet is about right. Much over 850fps and it's punishing.

 

[Bazoo]

Reading sixguns again. This time I note the suggestion for a light gallery load of 3 grains bullseye and a 210 grain bullet. Anyone here ever try such a light load?

 

[joneb]

Reading sixguns again. This time I note the suggestion for a light gallery load of 3 grains bullseye and a 210 grain bullet. Anyone here ever try such a light load?

I'd give that a no go, but that's just me. I would think there are a lot factors in play to make that a safe load to shoot.

 

[conan32120]

personally I've not found bullseye to be that wonderful in the .44 in any weight charge

 

[Bazoo]

personally I've not found bullseye to be that wonderful in the .44 in any weight charge

Could you elaborate please? What did it do or not do that leaves it’s performance lackluster?

I’ve been using it with happy results but I’m easy to please it seems. But I haven’t used it extensively.

 

[conan32120]

my .44 is a charter pug and bullseye is a fast burning powder which causes a "snappier " recoil. I prefer unique or hs6 as the recoil (though still strong) seems more like a "push". hs6 however needs to be loaded pretty much near max. My favorite load is 5.7 gr unique behind a 240 gr swc lead or plated. accurate but not brutal and not a lot of smoke

 

[Bazoo]

my .44 is a charter pug and bullseye is a fast burning powder which causes a "snappier " recoil. I prefer unique or hs6 as the recoil (though still strong) seems more like a "push". hs6 however needs to be loaded pretty much near max. My favorite load is 5.7 gr unique behind a 240 gr swc lead or plated. accurate but not brutal and not a lot of smoke

Thanks for extrapolating. I haven’t paid much attention to the recoil from powders in my Blackhawk, but I am aware of the phenomenon in other guns so I understand.

Ive been using 5.5 unique for a little less than full power load. It is very pleasant.

 

[joneb]

WSF works good in 45 auto with 230 grain bullets, and that’s low pressure. I think it would be right at home in 44 special +P, in the 18-25k psi range. Problem is... no data

You will need too work up your own.
I had good success with WSF in a S&W 696 with 200-215gr bullets, no reason the same could not be done with 240gr.
It's a process, keep notes and share.

 

[Bazoo]

Here she is in her usual spot. I’ve worn this simply rugged holster almost continuous nearly a year.

 

[daverich4]

Reading some of sixguns, I seen mentioned 6.5 bullseye and the Keith bullet. Does anyone know what kind of pressure that would run?

That’s quite a bit over Alliant’s maximum load for that bullet.
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=32

 

[Bazoo]

That’s quite a bit over Alliant’s maximum load for that bullet.
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=32

Obviously it would be a +p loading.

I meant no disrespect in being terse.

I’m just curious if anyone else used this load and what pressures it runs.