Bear gun

[astocks2622]

Hello,
I may be spending some time in Alaska this summer, and am hoping to do some hiking. I have a Tanfoglio Witness in 10mm, and want to know if this is "enough" gun. although shot placement is key, i like having more than 5-6 rounds, and i am very comfortable and familiar with the gun. have any of you actually used a 10mm to stop a bear?
thanks,
Astocks2622

 

[george29]

I knew a bunch of guys that lived and worked in Alaska, you oughta hear them tell stories of all the brisk business gun stores do over there selling the same gun to different people, Also, killing a bear will get you into hot water unless you can prove the bear attacked and you had no choice and that includes you having to give the bears the right of way. If you do shoot a bear and don't kill it, and don't report shooting the bear, that bear will end up killing someone else. If you are planning on doing it the tourist way, I very much doubt you need a gun at all (against bear), and if you are going off the beaten track, invest in a guide that has rifles in real bear calibers. I have never been in Alaska, but worked with people that lived there many years, your worst encounter will probably not come from a bear is all I'm saying.

 

[Zoogster]

Not again....
This topic is covered once a month it seems.

Hello,
I may be spending some time in Alaska this summer, and am hoping to do some hiking. I have a Tanfoglio Witness in 10mm, and want to know if this is "enough" gun. although shot placement is key, i like having more than 5-6 rounds, and i am very comfortable and familiar with the gun. have any of you actually used a 10mm to stop a bear?
thanks,
Astocks2622

Nothing in a handgun is going to seem like enough if you need it against a bear. Most capable calibers are in magnum powered revolvers. However I would feel confident in a 10mm with many more rounds fired. A heard about a couple guys out fishing taking a big one both armed with 9mm sidearms. They put a lot of shots into it though.
A 10mm being a great penetrator with the proper rounds could definately get to the right places. The question however is whether it will do enough damage after reaching those places quickly enough to matter in an attack.

Opening fire from a standing position at one with many rounds on tap is one thing. Shooting one handed after having a bear "appear" unexpectedly in very close and aggressive or maybe even in the process of attacking would be different.

For dispatching a bear you generaly need a long gun. If planning to be in a high risk location (not just the woods, but where bears are foraging) it is worth considering one in adequate caliber. However for casual hiking, it would probably start to get left behind more and more, so you are better served by a sidearm.

For casual hiking you should be very well served with some hot, deep penetrating 10mm. You are more likely to have problems with people than wildlife. Such a round will perform a little worse against people, yet have plenty of penetration (even if not tissue damage) for bear. Be aware many rounds in the right areas would be ncessary.

As george said, having a gun and seeing a bear, even if you find it scary does not give you the right to shoot. Killing one is a last resort. A lot can be understood from the body language of a bear, and you could learn to recognize such body language in a short time with a little research.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

For about $300 you could bring along an 18" Remington 870 with slugs.

 

[Roman756]

I would want at minimum ,a .44 Magnum stoked with Randy Garrett's 310 or 330 grain Hammerheads.
Even with this great load, shot placement will be factor with those big
bears.

 

[snowtigger]

If you can hit with the 10mm, it is enough gun. With the right ammo it will do the job.
A couple years back, a fellow killed one in Anchorage with two shots from a 10mm.
A long gun would be better, if it were not left in the car. A 44 mag or larger would be better if you can hit with it, but if you are competent with the 10mm, it will do the job.
A fun game for practice is to take a remote control car,add a long antenna and tie a 10" baloon to the antenna. Have someone drive the car at you as fast as it will go from about 30 yards and shoot at the baloon.
Remember a charging bear will cover that distance in about two (2) seconds. They can run at speeds up to 35 miles an hour. 30 miles an hour is 44 feet per second.
All that said, I have lived and hunted Alaska for almost 50 years, and have never had an ecounter with a bear. It does happen, but very rarely.
If you are that guy, once is too much, but give them some room and chances of becoming that guy are miniscule...
I, personally carry a 44mag with hardcast 310 grain Lee's downloaded to about 1100 fps. Time spent getting back on target after the shot is every bit as critical as how powerful the cartridge is. That bullet,at that speed will penetrate even a large bear end to end. How much more do you need?

 

[gbran]

Some areas of AK you can't bring a gun, so depending on where you go, it may be moot. I generally go to the Kenai Penensula and carry a 454 SRH.

When I'm with guides, many of them carry shotties.......... 1st round buckshot to get their attention, then followed up with slugs. Browns or grizzlies have a much more sloped skull and it is far more difficult to get a good head shot. I've heard stories where people have successfully killed bears with handguns, but a big bore rifle or shottie with slugs is the minimum I'd feel safe with. Of course, I'm talking about big bears.

 

[Run&Shoot]

My brother was in Alaska many years ago. when they worked in Kodiak and brownie areas they would carry one or two personal hunting rifles for protection of the group. Once they got kind of corned by a Kodiak up onto some beach logs. Fortunately the bear was more curious than furious. But even though he has taken many black bear with his 7mm mag, he said that time the 7mm seemed mighty puny. He decided if he ever had to face a grizzly again he would want a .375 H&H minimum.

Anything is better than nothing, but avoidance or a longarm are better yet.

 

[BDFT]

My carry gun for bear in northern BC is an 870 loaded with 7, 3" magnum slugs, 20" barrel with a rifled choke and express sights. I wouldn't want to tangle with anything bigger than a small Grizzly with that. That's not for bear hunting, just for when you trip over them. As the old joke goes, you should file the front sight off your bear defense handgun so when the bear shoves it where sun don't shine it won't hurt so much.

 

[green-grizzly]

I shot a black bear a couple of years ago and it didn't strike me as all that tough (grizzlies could be a whole different matter). But I think 10mm might be a little light, especially as it would be difficult to find bullets that would provide enough penetration. I think .44 Mag or bigger would be more appropriate, or better yet a shotgun.

 

[alaskagunner]

When I guided other fly fishers I carried a shotgun. A shotgun is a PITA when fly casting. This summer when I feel the need I'll be carrying a S&W 500. I've started reloading for it so I can practice every time I go to the range.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I shot a black bear a couple of years ago and it didn't strike me as all that tough (grizzlies could be a whole different matter).

Black= Ford Explorer
Grizzly= M1A Abrams


We had a friend who had to do timber valuations in Kodiak and other remote areas and set him up with a .445 supermag. Fortunately he never had to use it. For a handgun that wouldn't be (too) much of a burden I think the Ruger Alaskan in .454 looks like a good "oh S$#%" piece.

 

[stevelyn]

You should generally be okay with the 10mm most places you go. If you are getting out into bear country where an encounter is more likely, you may be better served by a shot barrelled shotgun stuffed with Brenneke slugs.

A lot really depends on where you go. In the interior, the grizzlies are smaller meaner as they have to be more predatory because of their food source.

Coastal bears are much bigger, but are more docile scavengers due to the abundance of fish which makes up the majority of their diet.

I've have had to whack three dumpster divers in six years under DLP (defense of life and property). All were taken with Brenneke slugs that made innies and outies.

Maintain situational awareness and you should be fine.

 

[ilcylic]

http://www.doubletapammo.com has some good hot 10mm. It doesn't play nice with all 10mm pistols, though, so make sure it'll run in your gun... and be careful when doing so. Specifically, the very unsupported feed ramp in an LAR Grizzly doesn't work with DoubleTap 10mm. I have a friend who had a "soft" ka-boom with that combo. Where "soft" means "didn't break the gun or take off his hand".

My EAA Witness Compact in 10mm, with a spring upgrade, and his Para 16.40 which was rechambered in 10mm and had a lot of other work done to it, work fine with all DoubleTap loads, and the DoubleTap guy does all of his testing with a Glock 20, so I presume those handle it fine as well.

The Mech-Tech CCU in 10mm also doesn't handle DoubleTap ammo. Bulgy cases are a bad sign.

EDIT: None of the previous should be counted as an endorsement of using 10mm to fight off Grizzly Bears. I have no information on that subject.

 

[MT GUNNY]

S&w .460

 

[Bob R]

Why would you want to shoot a bear? One of nature's gentle creatures. You are, afterall, in his back yard. He is just doing what is natural. He looks at you and will say, yum, yum, soft on the outside...crunchy on the inside. Kind of like a candy treat for the bear.

So, if you think you will need something to dissuade that mean ole bear from eating you, I personally wouldn't have anything smaller than a 12 gauge loaded with:

.

I would also have one member of the party not doing anything but watching the area. Awareness can be one of your best defenses.

bob

 

[vynx]

Pepper spray the bear pepper spray

and an air horn (scares bears and signals when you get lost).

 

[BamAlmighty]

Against a Kodiak?

Rifle... 45-70

Revolver... .454 Cassull, .460 S&W, .500 S&W

a 3" Magnum slug would work, but it wouldn't be my first choice

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

Stainess Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 Gov't or .450 Marlin. (I favor the .45-70.) However, Rossi has chambered their Model 92 clone in .454 Casull. NINE rounds in a 20 inch carbine! My Rossi is in .45 Colt and the HSM 300 grain "Bear Loads" approach the .454.

ECS

 

[astocks2622]

thanks for the input. While i don't intend to put myself in a situation where i'll actually need the gun, i'd like to have it as a little insurance should a startled bear become an angry bear. i know there are better rounds for this type of protection, but i just wanted to know if the 10 would do the job providing i do mine. i do like the idea of practicing with the baloon tied to the R/C car. might make for a great competition for my range buddies and I...

 

[The Annoyed Man]

I remember years ago reading an article about bear hunting in Alaska. I recall the author to be Wiley Clapp, but I could be wrong about that. Anyway, as he and his guide returned to their cabin, the door was open. Clapp entered first with a Redhawk in .44 mag drawn, loaded with his personal favorite STOUT hand loads (I don't recall the load details). He surprised a brown bear inside the cabin, the bear came at him and he said that he rapid fired all six rounds into the bear's chest area. He said that the guide came through the door behind him and stopped the bear with one shot from a rifle in .470 Nitro Express. When they autopsied the bear, not one of Clapp's .44 magnum bullets had penetrated past the ribcage, and it was his hottest load.

Now, Clapp could have been embellishing the tale a bit, but it was enough to convince me that I A) have no interest in hunting bears; and B) that If I get a wild hair up my butt and develop such an interest, to bring enough gun because my little ol' Model 29 in .44 mag isn't going be enough. I recommend any rifle chambered in one of the heavy classic safari calibers, and having a quick follow up shot capability. Better to have more gun than you need, than to have not enough and desperately need more.