been doin some thinkin

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Stauble

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after reading many articles and seeing many clips about door to door searches and seizures of weapons, and the forceful removal of people from their homes ive been wondering, are we safe from our own government? has our Federal government got too much power, or overusing thier power, and not being held accountable for it?
before the American Revolution, with the intolerable acts, the british forced their troops on our homes, but i havent really heard of the british tellin people to get out and leave thier homes. nor doing house to house raids on peaceful peoples homes looking to confiscate guns. of course after the revolution started they started doing that and buring peoples houses, but not during peace time.
the government has absolutly no buisness telling people to get out of thier homes. they have no buisness stripping law abiding citizens of thier property. this includes thier legally owned firearms.
to me, the fact that our goverment COULD NOT do this, was one thing that made America great.
maybe im over reacting to this all, but i think that this is a very slippery slope our Federal Government is going down. its not right, and it is toatlly UnAmerican.
i cant imagine the reaction of Washington or Jefferson if they could see wat the government is doin in New Orleans right now

i could put down alot more but i guess i am supposed to keep it gun related, seeing as this is a gun sight

just my simple minded thoughts
 
Take a deep breath. If you get too excited reading this stuff then get up and do some kind of physical labor -- works for me, and the news coming out of NO is realling getting to me at times.

The questions you're asking are questions most all libertarians ask. I think most would agree that the country, as it is, has moved a long way from what our founding documents legitimized. Most on this board would agree that the bill of rights -- that list that many of the founders thought was completely unnecessary -- is mostly ignored. Unfortunately, it looks like having federal judges appointed by the executive and approved by the legislature has us in a position where we get court decisions like....Kelo.

Things are bad from a property-rights and personal-freedom perspective. And, in my darker moments, I only see it getting worse. The points to keep in mind when thinking these thoughts are
  • We're still the freest nation in the world. Mostly. At least, there are a lot of trade-offs if you want to move somewhere else.
  • In some ways things are getting better. Having to get permission to CCW raises one's blood pressure, but the fact of the matter is that a non-felon can CCW more freely today than at any time in the last 50 years.
  • Revolution fantasies don't get anywhere.
I'm sensing a lot of anxiety from some corners of the board on the third point, so I'll detail this a little. If I were to give you a magic wand that would instantly eliminate the current system and give you control over how you redo things, what would you do?

Well, most say they can't come up with anything better than the constitution we've already got, so they'd want to roll things back a few amendments and get rid of most of the federal bureaucracy.

Cool.

Now, if you've got the same folks voting then as you do now, you're gonna get the same kind of shananegans (sp?) that've gotten us where we are today. Your "average" american wants to feel safe from, well, everything. Guns are scary. Freedom is scary. Big government is warm and fuzzy -- schools for all, a "safety net" for people who run into bad luck, "professionals" to monitor our phone calls and all those cameras to keep us safe from terrorists, an EPA to protect us from eeeeevil corporations who want to poison our drinking water, an OSHA to make sure our boss doesn't make us sit on spiked chairs all day at work, and huge taxes to fund it all.

You can't have the society we've got -- universal sufferege and a populace that for the most part likes this system and wants more of the same -- and have a government different than we have now. I'm sorry, but that's where we are.

Which is the nail in the coffin of the "let's revolt and make it better!" argument.

You need another, less obvious, solution.
 
Derek,
Good points, perhaps that's why in the olden days only property owners could vote?
 
I can think of a way to improve the system. There should be a big Thunderdome type arena in DC. Any time someone proposed a bill that conflicts with one of the first 10 Amendments they must fight to the death against anyone that will accept the challenge.

That would keep many of the inane unconstitutional bills from ever being proposed. If you irk enough people, they will fight you to keep what is theirs. The legislatorcritters these days have it far too easy, there is no fallout from proposing horrid legislation.

Imagine if Ted Kennedy had to fight hand to hand every time he tried to ban hunting ammo.
 
derek,
i was fumeing wen i rote that. i took a shower and had a chew and i feel angrier.
i do agree with you that we r still the best country in the world, but if the constituion was interpreted the way it should then it would be a perfect place.
and when i have my "darker moments" i dont see them getting any better.

i disagree with you on the revolution part tho.
ill say no more
 
Looking at a bigger picture, Montana seems to have a spine. Worst comes to worse they're always there, and the people who will move to Montana will do so because they like the independence.

In essence, instead of a violent revolution you could have a revolution of demographic shift, concentrating all the freedom-loving peoples in select states. I'd say that's not only the best option, it's also the most likely option. And it's an option that you can discuss freely without fear of repercussions.

USA is still a federation, as long as the original constitutional documents exist, and people who know of them live, the federal structure will provide an escape of last resort.

Every time a state moves closer to being a police state, they have an exodus of patriots. This concentrates patriots into select states, and makes progression of tyranny harder.

So, in a sense, every state that we lose makes us stronger, as it forces us into greater concentrations.

In a sadder sense, the gov't seems to be 'cheating' by flooding the country with an illegal influx of people who have lived in the shadow of fear since birth, and know nothing other than absolute governance. I'm not saying that's the main reason why they're letting them in, but it's definately a side-effect.
 
Not to sound like an armchair revolutionary,but I think it's time we made a stand,the same thing almost happened when British soldiers tried to take the arms of our people,that was the first strike we made as a people.

I don't think of myself as some cut rate George Washington but we need to take a stand somewhere,and we need to do it quickly before the Government gets a little more power hungry,Voting will not stop the beast that has been created in the wake of Katrinia,only armed force from the people and by the people will stop it from getting even more out of hand.
 
Speaking of immigrants: today's Wall Street Journal article mentioned that 75% of the Russian Jews who come to the US are conservative. I wonder if that means Republican or freedom-loving? Maybe Mexicans who had enough of their way of life would wind up defending the newfound liberty better than some natives.
 
Not to sound like an armchair revolutionary,but I think it's time we made a stand,the same thing almost happened when British soldiers tried to take the arms of our people,that was the first strike we made as a people.

I don't think of myself as some cut rate George Washington but we need to take a stand somewhere,and we need to do it quickly before the Government gets a little more power hungry,Voting will not stop the beast that has been created in the wake of Katrinia,only armed force from the people and by the people will stop it from getting even more out of hand.
Click to expand...
I concur. A..demonstration... if you will, of the dangers of the path our leaders tread needs to be made, and plain it should be. This thought comes to mind as a start, and perhaps a consumer demonstration? What products do most of us consume each week? Off the cuff, I can name Milk, Meat and/or Beer. How would the producers of those products react I wonder, to a sudden drop in the rewards of their labors, when it was well known that THEIR losses were the result of our "Leaders" folly?

Beyond that? Well, I saw two opportunities to strike against our would be oppressors tonight. Both quick, leathal and spectacular. Boys/Gals in blue, in condition White, sad.... Would that it does not come to that.
 
Hey, Oleg--

I read that article, as well. I'm also not clear on whether "conservative" there means libertarian or "social conservative". I realize Jews in Russia have always faced marginalization. But I think it's hard to avoid taking on some of the aspects of the larger culture in which one lives, even while living in the both physical and "ideational" isolation of the Jewish culture.
What I'm getting at is the hoary Russian dichotomy of Westernizers and Slavophiles. And I admit my reach is made with blunt fingers. But, is it possible that more recent Russian Jewish immigrants are looking at the opportunities for liberty under law and the actualization of individual potential, here in America, as opposed to a tribal identity expressed by a "Democratic Party ghetto"?
I'd be interested in your take on this.

Also, I love your "A Human Right" website. I'm honored to be a member of a forum where you read and post. I'm sure others have said this to you, but I'd be remiss if I didn't, myself, say, "Welcome to America."
 
Sindawe that was a nice story but I think we need to get on the move and march on Washington D.C. and if needed hold the capitol hostage (But only as a very very last resort)

In order to get our point across.
 
It is firmly set forth that once the government no longer serves the best interests of it citizens that those citizens have the God given right to dissolve the current government and establish another. The Feds are quickly getting to the point where most of their energies are channeled to securing more power and influence for themselves. While change may sound scary, and it most definitely would be, that does not make it wrong. Enough is enough, and if nothing is ever said about it then only the worst can happen. Be outspoken about your displeasure. Let your elected officals know that you are not happy with the current trend shown by big governement. Let it be known that when agents fo the State come knocking down your door without due process of law that they will have a fight on their hands. Atlas will surely shrug unless good men and women start being as active in securing their Constitutional rights as those trying to infring them are.
 
In essence, instead of a violent revolution you could have a revolution of demographic shift, concentrating all the freedom-loving peoples in select states. I'd say that's not only the best option, it's also the most likely option. And it's an option that you can discuss freely without fear of repercussions.
Click to expand...
+1

I love California dearly, but the time may come when my wife, kids, and I will travel to a place that holds freedoms more dearly. Watching members of an organization I almost joined, (The CHP) getting some "practice" in NO chills me to the bone.

I have lived through two earthquakes, the LA riots, the '93 Wildfires, and the '03 Wildfires, 5 different SHTF situations, any of which could easily happen here again. Are they going to take that chance to disarm me?

I am also rethinking my career move towards becoming an LEO. I wonder if being part of the thin blue line would help me retain my weapons at all, and if I would be required to disarm other law-abiding citizens.
 
The more liberty-loving peoples on the police forces, the better.

Imagine what happens if people who care about the constitution are no longer represented on police forces.

Then again, if everyone in the break room talks about gun-owners in the same sentence as criminals and terrorists, I could see it being an uncomfortable situation, and a poor environment to work in.
 
Sindawe that was a nice story but I think we need to get on the move and march on Washington D.C. and if needed hold the capitol hostage (But only as a very very last resort)
Click to expand...
Take a box of bricks adorned with the appropriate messages(the second isn't the only hot button issue) to your critter. Give it to the staff and make sure they see it safely to the critter, as small, heavy boxes might be mistaken for bombs, and by hand delivering it, you and the staff can verify that it's not a bomb, and so it(and your message) won't get blown up by the bomb squad. Marching on DC sounds good in theory, but the logistics will kill you.
 
If I were to give you a magic wand that would instantly eliminate the current system and give you control over how you redo things, what would you do?

For starters: No more career politicians. Give them a set number of years that they can run for a position and hold a position. No more letting others(Corperations, business owners, other politicians etc.) "Contribute" to campaign funds. They are suppose to remain neutral, they can't do this if they owe poeple favors. And the politicians have to live AMONGST their voters, They can't represent us, if they don't know what it's like being us.

Set a term limit for members of Congress. Vote for new members of congress, WE vote, not who is in there now and get all of those usless dried up sacks of flesh out of there. They've been in office so long they no longer know what it is like LIVING in the real world.

Reinstate the draft. For terms of at least four years. If nothing else, it will make activating the malitia, if it is evern needed somewhat possible instead of some pipe dream. And if everyone knows that they are going to be entering the military, they can get over their fear of firearms, because they KNOW that they will be learning about them soon enough.

That's just the beginning......
 
I would say that, as usual, those on THR calling for REVOLUTION or something have little to no appreciation of the historical facts about the American Revolution.

Go read history.

The Revolution didn't "just happen."

There was no moment when the whole populace just stood up, shook their fists, and yelled "We're not gonna take it!"

It was a whole, slow, long process.

The Boston Massacre happened in 1770. It took at least five more years for the fighting to start.

The "Declaration of Independence" was not issued until 1776, or more than a year AFTER actual ground combat had started on the road to Lexington and Concord on April 19,1776.

By the time the Delcaration was signed and issued, Boston had been under naval blockade for a year.

Even after the Boston Massacre and the Intolerable Acts and the fighting around Lexington and Concord and the Delcaration, the vast majority of colonials were still AGAINST revolution, especially the farther south you went.

The rest of the colonials considered the "Sons of Liberty" types up in New England to be bomb-throwing wackos.

And once the war was "officially" declared by the Declaration of Independence, there were still seven long, bloody, awful years of fighting until the war was won in 1783.

And if you read history, you'll see that American militia types, and the regulars of the Continental Army did a lot more losing and dying than they did winning, especially during most of the first half of the war.

And to be perfectly, brutally frank about it, I don't think there are more than a handful of THR-types who would have the patience, guts, and determination to stick with a process that lasted 13 years (Boston Massacre to final victory) and saw as many setbacks and defeats and downturns as the American Revolution did.

I mean there are folks screaming and yelling on THR because the NRA hadn't invaded New Orleans within 12 hours of illegal gun confiscations being revealed there.

hillbilly
 
dpesec came very close to it.

We give away the franchise to anyone 18 or older with a body temp above ambient (in Chicago ambient qualifies).

Because it does not cost anything, it is not valued. We need to place a value on the franchise. Take your pick, military service, paying property taxes directly(not renting), a couple years cleaning bedpans at the VA hospital, cleaning the streets at min wage. Some price that nearly everyone can qualify for with some effort. If you are on the dole, no vote. People value things in relation to what they cost. If it is free it is worth less or might I better say worthless.

Sam
 
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