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Registration = Confiscation?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by SigSour, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten Member

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    Gun Registration is Gun Confiscation

    Here is an article I wrote in 2000. I think it lays out why gun registration is gun confiscation. It is pretty simple if you think about it a bit:

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/gun-registration-is-gun-confiscation.html

    The holy grail of the anti self defense and anti rights special interest groups is gun registration. This is because once your gun is required to be registered, it is in effect, already confiscated. Only a little thought will reveal to you why this is so. The Government will know who has legal possession of each firearm. They will know where the firearm is stored. When physical possession of the gun is desired, they can order you to turn it in. This has happened repeatedly. The historical examples include NAZI Germany, Soviet Russia, Red China, and Cambodia. Recent examples include Kosovo, Great Britian, Australia, New York, and California. Not having possession of the firearm registered to you can be grounds for criminal action. If you have reported the gun stolen, and it is then found in your possession, you can be charged with obstruction of justice.

    It is a truism that once all guns are required to be registered, the only people who will legally possess guns will be those who have registered them. If you choose to follow the course of civil disobedience, and not register your firearms, mere possession of an unregistered gun can put you at grave legal risk. Civil disobedience has been the most common course of action in California and Canada, where it has proven impossible to enforce the laws requiring registration. If you choose this course of action, you would now be at the mercy of any informant who discovers that you possess a gun illegally. Children in the public schools are already being trained to tell the police if there is a gun in the house. Doctors are being urged to ask children if there are guns in their home. A warrant was issued in California for a SWAT raid based on the mere picture of people holding unidentified guns which were legal. The picture had been sent to the police by an informant in the film developing company. If you are not on the list of those who have registered, you have become a criminal. If you are forced to use the gun for self defense, you will have committed a serious crime. It will become extremely difficult to train your children in firearms safety or to bring friends or relatives into the gun culture. In a few years, the number of people with personal knowledge of guns will be much smaller. The people who urge gradual or immediate gun registration are attempting cultural genocide of the gun culture.

    (about double this at the link)

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/gun-registration-is-gun-confiscation.html
     
  2. fiddleharp

    fiddleharp Member

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    swathdiver
    Member



    Join Date: January 18, 2010
    Posts: 35 "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    You let them ban mail order handguns in 1927, then you let them pass the 1934 National Firearms Act, which exploded with the 1968 NFA, etc. Every inch you've given them, they've taken a mile. The Statist will keep chipping away at your rights until you have none. When will you draw the line and tell them "NO" with your actions

    This guy nailed it!
    Generation after generation of Americans have been asleep at the wheel.
    We've become feminized lemmings.
    Hey! How 'bout that Alabama vs Notre Dame game?! WhooHoo!
    On any issue, we're getting exactly the "leadership" we deserve.
    As mentioned before, if you won't even bother to e-mail your Congressman, state or local elected official, how can we expect you to engage in a firefight with gun-grabbing LEO's who've laid seige to your house, much less pro-actively go out and hunt the domestic enemies of our Constitution?
    While I'm encouraged by the sheer number of posters here who understand that registration=confiscation, I think I'm safe in betting that almost all of these internet chest-thumpers will absolutely cave when "the time comes".
    We are not the people we were in 1776. :(
    Edit: By the way, how do we "quote" previous posters on this board? I started this post with a "quote", but don't know how to properly credit that poster.
     
  3. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    Everyone take note that registration is perennially called for by guys like Cuomo (proposing legislation in NY to register AWs). Not two days ago he was promoting outright confiscation (oh, I'm sorry, "mandatory buyback." Forgive me, NPR, for getting the two confused :rolleyes:) and now he claims "existing gunowners will get to keep their AWs" (paraphrase) if they will just submit to registering them.

    The anti's aren't slick. Their motives are plain to see, their intentions clear. So clear, that they've showed us exactly where to focus are strongest efforts against them. If we can stop the push for registration, no permanent damage can be done. "Ban" lists can always be reopened, workarounds devised; but the registration of yourself as a gunowner will persist forever--waiting to be exploited by some future legislation or persecution. The legislation/nebulous Executive orders being proposed by Biden's Brain Trust are "more of the same" except for the registration provision. Nothing we can't handle, nothing we haven't weathered--except for the registration provision.

    Hopefully the "battle line" is clear for all gunowners to see; competitors, mall-ninjas, Fudds, and CCW'ers: we must stop them here! All that comes afterward can be undone, if need be, but we cannot compromise on registration in the least.

    TCB
     
  4. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    No. No. No. There is no exception. Please stop repeating these myths. That's certainly not a basis to believe that POTUS/Congress can confiscate arms.
    For declaring war, waging war, whatever you want to call it. The President has never waged war without Congress okay. That's still the power of Congress. Always has been. Congress has given the President very limited powers to do things, always with Congress's approval. Congress still holds the purse strings, so basiclly he can do small actions for upto a couple of weeks (with Congress's approval) then he has to ask Congress for more money.
    The President has NEVER waged war without Congress's okay.

    The President is not a king. Congress's power is not unlimited either.
    Congress also does not have the power to "confiscate" arms. Not going to happen.
     
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    It isn't the same, but people argue that it is the first step on the slippery slope to confiscation because it has happened in history. It has also been done without confiscation so it is debatable if the argument "Because it happened in Germany and Australia it WILL happen here".

    The problem with it is that the mechanism is burdensome on the individual and the citizenry as a whole as you have to complete the transfer of a firearm from Father to Son or Aunt to Niece before actually giving that gift.
     
  6. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    I think the frog analogy is fitting here. Throw a frog into a pan of boiling water, he will jump out. Put him gently into a pan of cool water and heat it slowly and he will cook to death before he jumps out.

    Incremental chiping away at our rights is very real. Bans and confiscations of arms will not happen in our lifetimes.
    Personally I like to see the anti's raging about bans/confiscation, "need for deer hunting", etc. Because all those arguments will lose against the fundamental right to arms. But it makes me crazy to see gun owners talking that way, because it illustrates what they are willing to give up now to keep some guns. Incremental prohibition.

    Remember, ONLY arms are protected. Hunting and sport are not.
     
  7. Skyshot

    Skyshot Member

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    Gosh! you now I traded all them firearms last week for a 53 Rambler.
     
  8. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Registration often leads to confiscation.

    The NFA is one of those exceptions, and many say it was in large part because of a general lack of compliance. The number of firearms registered was quite small compared to the number possessed that they can clearly see were manufactured through manufacturing records.



    Registration is a key component of emboldening officials in confiscation matters, or mandating increasingly difficult hoops to jump through and then knowing who still has a gun and failed to jump through the latest hoop.
    When they know who has what they feel implementation of thier latest vision in gun restrictions will result in better compliance, as they will know who is not complying.


    A big part of firearms deterence is not knowing who has them and where. If you known where all the arms are then you can strategize around them.

    In places with registration we have already had confiscation in the United States.
    New York and California have both confiscated arms previously registered. California also maintains a database that red flags registered owners if they become prohibited for any reason as armed and dangerous people that need to be disarmed.




    Registration also makes divide and conquer strategies easier to implement, with great potential in modern times with computer databases.
    You could quite readily use such a database to for example create a displayed map for various kinds of weapons.
    Imagine a database where you add or remove checks for certain types of weapons, and see an icon pop up on the map of where it is owned. Or tint a map based on prevalance of a selected criteria.
    Writing such software wouldn't be that hard, especially with existing map programs like google earth that already will show you the location of any address you enter on the map. That would all be archived data in the registration process anyways, you could write a program to automatically use that data to overlay a google earth type map with gun owners.
    Such a map would let you figure out what regions could be pitted against eachother, and where you could try to implement various types of gun control with the least resistance.
    You find areas without a lot of certain types of weapons then create a base of support for restricting what those people don't have.
    You can see where people have ARs, or where people have more long guns. You could pit long gun rich areas against hand gun owners. Places without many ARs against them. Places without many large caliber weapons against large caliber weapons.
    You could really create some arms reduction strategies to implement a whole wave of additional restrictions and where they would first be most effective to implement and grow bases of support bye spending time researching with such a program.
    The government already creates many such maps on other subjects.
    Guns wouldn't be hard to add.

    Just check http://www.nationalatlas.gov/ to see the type of thing you could create if all guns were part of a streamlined database that included type, serial number (which also includes type because most large manufacturers assign the serial number based on type so you can tell what a firearm is often just by knowing the serial number and who made it) and address of owner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  9. sonick808

    sonick808 Member

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    Absolutely. Anything short of all guns banned and turned in is just another precursor. Registration absolutely means confiscation.
     
  10. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    How do you figure that (at least where machine guns are concerned)? Civilian MG technology is rapidly becoming as antiquated as black powder was when the law was passed. If the Govt had had the same idea about restricting access to smokeless powder or semi-autos, we'd be relegated to Cowboy Action guns today (revolvers, levers, and gatling guns) and be discussing the ban on the stupid Mossberg Assault Leveraction and Side by Side :mad:

    A technology or possession "freeze" is nothing but a slow, gasping confiscation as modernity passes by the "permissible devices" and the legal possessors die off or forego the onerous task of maintaining their ownership. Confiscation has little to do with how "effective" the initial seizure/registration was, if nothing legal can be poured back into the pot to keep the number stable.

    Indeed. The reason we are registered with our place of work is so the government may get our tax revenue. There is always something to be gotten by registering people (most always money).

    TCB
     
  11. anchorman

    anchorman Member

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    I'm sure the women on this board really appreciate these sorts of comments :rolleyes: Are you implying that guns make you masculine? do you need your guns to be a man? This is the talk that makes people think that owning guns = compensating for something…

    As to your statement about "hunting" your fellow citizens who you think are not being active enough in upholding the constitution to your standards, you, sir, and people like you, are one of the primary reasons why I even own guns in the first place. I hope you didn't actually mean what you wrote. Either way, you might want to think twice before you start ranting in public about "hunting" people with whom you disagree.
     
  12. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    Registration is just an incremental step towards confiscation, absolutely. Maybe not in the next few years, maybe not in this generation, but it's there and a wicked tool to use.

    I used to not get the guys against the NFA or Gun Control Act, but I understand them now and agree. It's just an incremental march towards eventual total confiscation.
     
  13. SilentStalker

    SilentStalker Member

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    I totally agree. Registration=confiscation at some point. When the Nazi's went around and did it in 1938, there had been a registry law implemented about 10 years earlier making it real easy to round up who had what. History has a tendency to repeat itself. So, you tell me LOL.
     
  14. anchorman

    anchorman Member

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    I'm glad you came around. Ever since I became a gun owner myself and started exploring these issues, I have been totally baffled as to how anyone could support most of the NFA restrictions. Hopefully if we explain this absurdity enough, we can get it reversed.
     
  15. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Buy guns in person transactions, so that there is no official record for the long-term.

    But what will protect our present, pre- or post-panic access to imported and domestic ammo, and prevent gradually
    increasing taxes (penalties by "The Left") or future import tariffs (penalties by "The Left" or a trade war)?:scrutiny:

    The general public has no interest in this issue. If ammo (Russian etc) had Not been available in early '08 at anywhere near .20/rd., I would Not have bought the Mini 14, Mini 30 or SKS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
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