Beer at Gun Club

[vynx]

My god ! All people who drink alcohol are addicted and alcoholics OH My

All people who own guns are potentential murderers!

I mean what else are guns for - they are ONLY for destructive purposes!

Run Run The sky is falling!

People who have 1 beer and drive do not cause the serious problems at least not because of 1 beer they would cause problems without drinking.

Why don't you see about having the NRA endorse prohibition?

Can't you see the parralells.

I remember when you could by an alcoholic drink to go at drive through package stores in Austun TX. Biggest problem it caused was littering.

It would seem that people concerned about a freedom would be concerned about other freedoms too? John Ross wrote about this...seems not enough people read it.

 

[MrDig]

I'm going to quote myself as I think I need to
From this very thread
"I am not speaking out against this as a recovering alcoholic, I could care less who drinks what as long as I don't drink I am O'k."

Even when I did drink, I didn't shoot much I knew the hazards so I made a choice. I know first hand the stupid choices people drinking make, Even non- alcoholics make STUPID choices when drinking. Some of the sanest people I know are complete boobs after just 1 or 2.

 

[The Rifleman]

Our Church had a picnic for the last 100 years. Every summer the last weekend in July. They always had beer there. They always made money.
Everyone drank and everyone got along. No Problems

Then the generations changed and the older members of our church died off and the next generation took over.

We had a family that cut the grass at the hall and also at the cemetary. Don and Debbie. I drank with Don lot's of time. But after Don got married and had 5 boys and a girl he had to settle down. That's why they had to cut grass, as a family project to make extra money for the family, every night after Don came home from work.

We also had another family, the father was hard on his daughter and she ran off with the first pecker head that came along. Got pregnant and that guy left her with nothing.
She then met a really nice guy that took her in. He married her and adopted her son as his own. He was a real stand up guy, just that he drank too. His kids got the impression that drinking was ok on the weekends.

His one son grew up and graduated from high school and joined the NAVY. He did his duty for his country and left the military after 4 years of service.
The boy got a good job and bought himself a JEEP.

The day of the church picnic, the boy had a couple of beers at a party somewhere and stopped off at the Picnic, maybe to see his mom and dad, maybe he wasn't there at all. I don't know because I was watching the NASCAR race on tv at home.

The boy then went to a club and tied one on.
There was other members of the club that tried to discourage him from trying to drive home. One of them was a Pennsylvania State Trooper.

In the end they gave him his keys after he made a fuss and let him go.

Debbie and Don were also at the picnic that day, along with their children. They left and went home and watched a movie and offered to take their sons date home.

On their way back from town. They met up with the boy in the Jeep, right in front of Debbie's aunts house about a mile from their home.

The boy was traveling at a high rate of speed - probably 70 MPH, Hit their station wagon head on. Killed the Mother Debbie, the father Don and their only daughter Katlyn. Their other son was in the back seat and was in a coma and both of his legs were broke, along with his pelvis. He had major reconstructive surgery done. It took him over a year to learn to walk again.

The driver of the JEEP died because of his injurys.

Since then, Debbie and Don's family members has sued the church, the club and the insurance company of the driver of the vehicle.

The church only had one picnic since then, and there was no alcohol there.

End of the story and end of the picnic tradition that was about 100 years old. All over a drunk and some licquer...

There were no bad people here.. Just some people that liked to drink and thought it never would happen to me.

When I was a kid. Don told me that when he quits hunting - you might as well throw him in the ground. Because he loved to do it that much. That day at the picnic, the last thing Don told me was that he shot a bunch of Turkeys and Deer over the last 20 years and didn't think that he was going hunting again because it just wasn't fun anymore.

 

[wacki]

The swiss shoot while drinking wine

http://www.swissrifles.com/shooting/

 

[Kankujoe]

With the common conception that all Gun Owners are Drunken, Stump Jumpers, Hillbillys and Rednecks, Why would one belong to an orginization that aided and abetted this image. Alcohol and Gun Powder do not mix. DUI limits are dropping not increasing, as already stated possesing a firearm while commiting another crime has stiffer penalties in a lot of states. Why would anybody want to take that risk?

Up front, let me say, I rarely drink alcohol of any kind... maybe an occasional glass of wine with dinner or at a party or a wedding... or a single beer at someone's BBQ. Tops 3-4 times per year...

I guess there should also be no alcohol at the local golf course or country club as well? I guess anyone who has a drink after a round of golf is also a lush, hillbilly or redneck...

What about personal responsibility? Don't you think you are going a little over board here? Of course some people should not drink period but just because you've had trouble with alcohol does not mean you need to impose your personal rules on others...

 

[Mr White]

Most of the posts in this thread make me think that this board should be called The High and Mighty Road.

Let me pose this scenario: You're sitting in your home watching TV. Your wife and kids are asleep in their beds. You've just drank 8 beers. You're feeling pretty good but you're not falling down drunk. Suddenly you hear the back door being kicked in. You have a 1911 sitting next to you in a small safe. Do guns and alcohol still not mix? Would you face a home invader unarmed just to stick to some high and mighty principle? I know I wouldn't.

Have I ever gone to the range drunk? No. Would I? No. Why? Because A, I don't think that being drunk and playing with guns is a good idea, and B, its against the rules and I don't want to get kicked out of the club. Have I ever had a few beers when shooting at my buddy's place or at a sand pit in the woods with a few other ol' boys? Yes. Was I a danger to myself or others because I drank those beers? No. Why? Because its all about responsibility, knowing your limitations and moderation. I know if I drink 3 or 4 beers over 2 hours of shooting, I will still remain in control and will still follow the 4 rules. If I had any doubts about being able to do that, I wouldn't drink at all before or during shooting.

I know there are people who can't drink just a few beers, or can't stay in control after 3 beers. They shouldn't drink when shooting. But a one size fits all solution ain't the answer. We all advocate personal freedon and responsibility here and part of that is being responsible enough and honest enough with yourself to know when you've crossed the line. I don't believe that the line is one drink.

 

[TheSunDanceKid]

ah i dont shoot at ranges or anything like that i shoot in the desert in a spot i can legaly shoot at and we bring a grip of alcohol ah but we shoot first and go down in a differnt truck to a place about 10miles from the car with guns and 4x4 and drink but drinking always second

 

[dogtown tom]

hoji Quote:
The point is, you don't have alcohol and then shoot. It's irrelevant that alcohol and firearms are in the same building; it's using them after consumption of alcohol that could lead to problems.

No, the point in TEXAS is, Any detectable amount of alcohol while you are in possession of a firearm in public is a criminal offense in and of itself.

This is simply not true. As a matter of fact it is commonly discussed in Texas CHL classes.

From the Texas CHL Forum:

§46.035. Unlawful carrying of handgun by license holder.


(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether
the handgun is concealed.

It does not say "with any detectable amount of alcohol", or, "after consuming any alcohol". It says "while intoxicated".

The term "legal limit" is a misnomer. It was created by the media to describe a person who, for the purposes of DWI, had a blood alcohol level that was at or above the PRESUMED LEVEL of intoxication. Currently that level is .08%. The DWI law says that a person commits an offense if the person drives "intoxicated", period.

Intoxication is then defined as:

(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties
by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a
drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those
substances, or any other substance into the body; or

(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

Regardless of how the person acts or behaves, he is presumed to be intoxicated at .08% or above BAC. However, if the person is BELOW the .08% or refuses to submit a breath sample, definition A can be used to obtain a conviction. The DWI laws require that a person be offered a chance to give a sample of breath or blood if suspected of DWI.

That is the only offense where a BAC test is applicable. For charges like Public Intoxication and Carrying a Concealed Handgun while Intoxicated, definition A is all that is required.

The term "legal limit" is used to describe a .08% BAC, and is applicable for DWI only. Many people believe that if you are below .08%, you are not DWI. That is not true.

The teaching in the CHL class and the subsequent question on the test regarding "no legal limit for CHL" applies to the fact that the .08% means nothing for the purpose of a CHL holder carrying while intoxicated. You are not required to be offered a breath test, nor will you be offered one if a LEO suspects you of being intoxicated while carrying, unless you were also driving at the time.

All the LEO has to suspect is that you do not have the normal use of mental or physical faculties
by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a
drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those
substances, or any other substance into the body.

He will establish that by observing your speech, balance, dexterity, eyes and smell of your breath.

If he has probable cause, he can arrest you under that. It would be an illegal arrest to arrest a person if they exhibit no signs of intoxication, but the LEO either observed the person consume alcohol or simply smelled it on your breath.

 

[Stretchman]

Personally, I think you should be able to shotgun a beer, toss the empty into the air, and be able to double tap it from the hip before it hits the ground. OF course, this would take lots of practice. But it would be an interesting thing to be able to do at parties and other social gatherings.

Stretch
Quit cigs 2W 3D 21h 55m ago. So far saved $107.47, 716 cigs not smoked and counting ...

 

[swingset]

When I went to Switzerland and visited a range, I was kind of shocked to see that they not only served beer, but whole families were there and the shooters were drinking a glass while they shot.

Some of their clubs allow it, and accidents are unheard of.

Does make you wonder why here booze/guns is a recipe for disaster, but halfway around the world, it's just a normal thing and no one gets loaded and starts waving guns around. I guess having a homogenous, educated population lets you get away with things that we can't.

 

[mountainclmbr]

If there was a bear at the gun club I would check on the hunting regulations. Could be he is at the wrong place and wrong time. If the problem is beer...I don't know the legalities of shooting it, but know some people who might be upset by the concept.

 

[YoPedro]

Booze-N-Shootin'

So, how many of you "Booze-N-Shootin" types toss back a couple of brews before ripping hardwood on a tablesaw? Or is alcohol and power tools a taboo?

Life is too short. Play safe, drink afterwards, and live to play another day. We all come out ahead when the media has nothing to report about us. When it comes to guns, no news is the best news.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

This thread tickles my funny bone.

When I was in Texas I had to go to Pinky's on the edge of town to buy my package goods. When I put my Cutty Sark on the table in the lounge all my Air Force buddies from Texas and the South made a mad grab to get it under the table and into the brown bag.

On the other hand Texas allows target practice on goblins for doing $200 worth of damage (felony) to property.

Here in the ultra blue San Francisco Bay area one of the three clubs I shoot at has a full bar (Richmond, no less) and another, I believe, has beer. I am not certain of the last as I don't usually drink after shooting.

Dunno what the rules are about drinking and shooting at the Richmond range as I don't frequent the bar as it seems to be mostly shotgunners and hangers on who smoke like there is no tomorrow (I am an ex-smoker and you know how we are).

 

[wuchak]

Personally, I think you should be able to shotgun a beer, toss the empty into the air, and be able to double tap it from the hip before it hits the ground. OF course, this would take lots of practice. But it would be an interesting thing to be able to do at parties and other social gatherings.

This would work as a self administered sobriety check. When you only hit it once you know you've had enough.

My former club (I moved out of state) had a stocked bar, full kitchen, and banquet hall we rented out. The kitchen and bar were locked unless they were opened by one of the people authorized to run them. The indoor range was dedicated to a different group each night of the week: Monday = handgun, Tuesday = rimfire rifle, Wed = archery, etc. Each of these groups had a core of regulars that came each week and one of them would be the volunteer bartender for the evening once he was done shooting. Everyone would come and shoot, once they were done shooting they would have a beer or two while trading tall tales, and go home. Being caught at any of the ranges after so much as a sip of beer was grounds to immediately have your club membership permanently revoked. In the 70 years the club has been doing operating this way there has never been a problem. Since it's hard to socialize while shooting having the bar was a nice way for people to get a chance to interact.

Shoot first, then drink, is just one of the many safety rules that we all managed to follow. It's called being a responsible adult.

 

[YoPedro]

Beer is my buddy.

I would be willing to bet that just about every drunk driver believes that they were okay to drive, right up until the moment they were arrested! The same could probably be said about alcohol related mishaps via guns, power tools and my personal favorite, “I swear she said she was eighteen!”.

 

[LAK]

A nip of scotch, wine or other short is quite common in parts of europa on game shoots etc.

But there is a cultural rift here whereas in such parts of europe it is usually a nip or shot of something - as opposed to "drinking" in this country which is more of a bar, club or party activity.

-----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[cracked butt]

At clubs in rural towns where I used to trapshoot every sunday, beer was served. There might be 150 shooters from surrounding communities shooting each week, and a good number of them would have a beer with their lunch (clubs usually serve hot ham or beef sandwhiches), I have done so as well. I've never seen anyone get drunk, or do anything unsafe in over 10 years of shooting trap league. The current club I belong to doesn't allow drinking until you are done shooting for the day, but has a very nice bar to go have a drink and shoot the BS after shooting the guns.

If people here really truely have had bad experiences with drunks on the range maybe they are shooting at the wrong range and should find a range. Perhaps it might have more todo with regional/ethnic attitudes towards alcohol than anything else.

 

[hoji]

All the LEO has to suspect is that you do not have the normal use of mental or physical faculties
by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a
drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those
substances, or any other substance into the body.

Hence the statement"any detectable amount"


You can spend the night in jail in Texas for public intoxication for failing the attitude test.{happened to me about 14 years ago I had had NOTHING to drink and mouthed off to one of my "betters" ala P.I.. All charges were subsequently dismissed, but it still cost me $300 to get it expunged}

Again I ask, WHY TAKE THE RISK? Unless you are just a retard. Then go for it,by all means.

 

[k_dawg]

When I went to Switzerland and visited a range, I was kind of shocked to see that they not only served beer, but whole families were there and the shooters were drinking a glass while they shot.

Some of their clubs allow it, and accidents are unheard of.

Does make you wonder why here booze/guns is a recipe for disaster, but halfway around the world, it's just a normal thing and no one gets loaded and starts waving guns around. I guess having a homogenous, educated population lets you get away with things that we can't.

I remember being on a business trip to a vender in Bavaria. At the factory, the lunchroom had warsteiner on tap! Here in the US, that is usually strictly verboten!

 

[hoji]

When I went to Switzerland and visited a range, I was kind of shocked to see that they not only served beer, but whole families were there and the shooters were drinking a glass while they shot.

Some of their clubs allow it, and accidents are unheard of.

Take into consideration the population of Switzerland,{The population of Switzerland (2006 estimate) is 7,523,934"

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/searchdetail.aspx?q=Population+of+Switzerland&pg=1&grp=med

Take into consideration the number of American gun owners {80-100 million}


And you might see how "accidents are unheard of".

 

[coat4gun]

Most of the posts in this thread make me think that this board should be called The High and Mighty Road.

Let me pose this scenario: You're sitting in your home watching TV. Your wife and kids are asleep in their beds. You've just drank 8 beers. You're feeling pretty good but you're not falling down drunk. Suddenly you hear the back door being kicked in. You have a 1911 sitting next to you in a small safe. Do guns and alcohol still not mix? Would you face a home invader unarmed just to stick to some high and mighty principle? I know I wouldn't.

Have I ever gone to the range drunk? No. Would I? No. Why? Because A, I don't think that being drunk and playing with guns is a good idea, and B, its against the rules and I don't want to get kicked out of the club. Have I ever had a few beers when shooting at my buddy's place or at a sand pit in the woods with a few other ol' boys? Yes. Was I a danger to myself or others because I drank those beers? No. Why? Because its all about responsibility, knowing your limitations and moderation. I know if I drink 3 or 4 beers over 2 hours of shooting, I will still remain in control and will still follow the 4 rules. If I had any doubts about being able to do that, I wouldn't drink at all before or during shooting.

I know there are people who can't drink just a few beers, or can't stay in control after 3 beers. They shouldn't drink when shooting. But a one size fits all solution ain't the answer. We all advocate personal freedon and responsibility here and part of that is being responsible enough and honest enough with yourself to know when you've crossed the line. I don't believe that the line is one drink.

This is right on... and worth reposting. I am amazed at how well the brainwashing has worked. "Guns are evil and only used by bad people." "Anyone who drinks ANY alcohol and drives is a murderer, and if in an accident it is ALWAYS their fault".... BULL!!

Let's all just throw Common Sense and Justice out the door. We have a Law to cover it... guess we don't have to think anymore.... and when we do the media has done all of the ground work for us... just repeat the lines we have been fed... We have become the Nanny State...

 

[QuestionEverything]

C'mon, let's not start this puritan BS again... Some folks shouldn't drink at all and some can drink a butt-load and conduct themselves as responsible CCWers.
Cookie-cutter rules rarely hold up to the rule of logic.

Yeah, I don't see why people get so hung up on the four safety rules either. I mean, as long as you're being careful it's fine to wave a gun around with your finger on the trigger, especially if the safety is on and/or the hammer is down. And that "always assume a gun is loaded" thing is so silly--I'm smart enough to know whether my gun is loaded, so what's wrong with a little playful dry-firing at my friends? Some people may be careless enough to need those extreme rules, but why should that ruin things for those of us that aren't?

 

[Biker]

QuestionEverything...

And just what exactly does your post have to do with *my* post? I mentioned nothing about the 4 rules, just advocated gun safety and common *know thyself* sense.

Explain...

Biker

 

[cracked butt]

I remember being on a business trip to a vender in Bavaria. At the factory, the lunchroom had warsteiner on tap! Here in the US, that is usually strictly verboten!

In the chemical plant I currently work in, there are a few people that have been there long enough to remember when there was Pabst on tap in the lunchroom- everyone was allowed 2 tappers per day. The place had been started by former Pabst workers as a molecual biology research facility. Of course after it was aquired by a large corporation, the taps went away.

Nothing can ruin a good thing faster than a lawyer or an insurance company.

 

[sturmruger]

No problem

I am a member of a local Sportsmans Club that has a weekly trap league. They have a whole cooler of beer for sale when you are done shooting. There is a strict rule that no booze is consumed until after you are done shooting. THis is enforced by felllow members and the people working the bar that day. Our club has been doing it this way for years and have never had any problems. Yes there are people out there that do dumb things, but with a structered program such as this we see very little people that are a problem.

I had the misfortune of being at the dump one Sunday night when a bunch of guys were all working on their own case of beer and shooting rats. I hung around for about 10 mins thinking that if I stayed away from them I would be safe. Another time I was at a buddies house when his neighbor and some other guys were all drunk shooting out behind the house. We watched for about 2 mins and got the hell out of there. I think drinking and shooting is dumb, but I have no problem with shooting then drinking.