before I answer THIS student, I thot I'd see if anyone else wanted toparticipate ...

[general]

Lookin' real good... run a spell check on it.

United States Constitutin

UNHUMAN

Inhuman?

Firearms are the ultimate guarantor of that right! Firearms are tools by which that means is met.

And the tools with which this nation was founded?

Criminals , By definition do NOT obey laws regardless of how strict they are.

Criminals are law BREAKERS by definition and will NOT obey laws regardless of how many or strict they are.

The anti self efense

The anti self defense...

Homicidal maniacs shouldn't be out on the street. I believe in the death sentence for murders

Personally - I'd delete the death sentence part... She didn't ask for that and it may come off a bit harsh (I know - I believe in it too, but...), maybe...Homicidal maniacs should be identified, incarcerated and in some cases be made to pay the ultimate price for their actions. Also, watch the caps and lighten up on the question marks? I think you'll come off more helpful than hostile. Remember - you don't want her to wave your e.mail around as some kind of proof that guns make you rant insanely.
Otherwise - very well conceived and written. AND an admirable job of assisting the youth to educate themselves and each other.
Bravo!

 

[pwrtool45]

Antis simply won't listen to arguments about constitutionality or politics. Let them puzzle those out for themselves-- they're going to anyway. It helps to focus on the basic need for self-defense and the inadequacy of other weapons.

Warren v/s District of Columbia (1981) The events (though anecdotal) and the ruling from this case is about as ideal a microcosm for the points mentioned above as we can get.

There are bad people in the world. Some worse than others, but in all the difference between your average rapist/murderer and Dahmer is completely academic. To a a victim, the end result is the same. There are many arguments against the moral validity of refusing the ability to defend yourself while relying on others (i.e., the police). They are, however, unimportant next to the pragmatic understanding that wheather or not you rely on someone else to defend you, you're not guaranteed they're going to be there. Nor are you guaranteed they're going to be able to help you if they do show up. Ask Carolyn Warren and her roommates. I would say ask Kitty Genovese, but you can't. I would also suggest you ask Konerak Sinthasomphone, but he's dead too. They're not even the most extreme cases. (Yes, as appaling as those cases are, there are wose).

Owning a gun means you can refuse to be a victim. When all is said and done, that's what stands.

 

[WAGCEVP]

changes made

any more?

 

[pwrtool45]

I'd like to add something else, but more for our benefit than actual inclusion into your response:

The most effective means of persuasion is to usually find where someone stands and offer an argument for your position that's closer to their position than yours. For gun control, I've found that just focusing on the need for self-defense and slowly bringing guns into that is simply much more likely to have a positive impact than standing up in my BDUs and screaming to the top of my lungs about the Second Amendment and how it doesn't matter if they agree with me or not. I think they call that "tact," but I'm not sure on the definition.

I've also found that people are more comfortable around "sportsman-like" guns than uber-tactical gear. I've never met *anybody* that doesn't love to blast Shoot-N-Sees with a Bearcat. Hanging a 25y slow-fire pistol target up and handing a newbie a Mk 23 is a sure way to turn them off.

I've never had a problem showing people the positive side of the shooting community, but that may have more to do with the fact that I'm also far, far more liberal than the average THR-goer. If a bleeding-heart like myself can like guns, why, they can't be *that* bad!

 

[Rickstir]

Ask her to look at it this way:

Gun Control is the same thing as telling good drivers, that obey the speed limits, pay their taxes, don't commit crimes that they cannot have cars. While at the same time doing nothing to the "criminals" that speed, drive drunk and kill people.

 

[WAGCEVP]

your welcome, will you let us know what happens in the debate, please?
Any more questions, feel free to ask.


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: sw357mag
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: gun control questions (ANSWERS)


thank you so much!

~Mary Jo

 

[XLMiguel]

So far, so good, very good even.

Perhaps you could find a way to also work in the notion that assault is a behaviour, not a device. Gun colntrol focuses on the [inanimate] instrumentality rather than undesireable behavior. People must be held accountable for their behaviour, regardless of what they use to act out with.

Or maybe wait for the inevitable round two on the questions. There's a lot of fundamental foundation stuff they need to absorb, accept, and internalize as a foundation for the 'great leap in logic - . . '. Good on all y'all.

 

[WAGCEVP]

Finish one - Start another

----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica Duram
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:25 PM
Subject: Info on how to debate against gun control.


Dear Sirs,

I am a student at Northland Baptist Bible College. I am currently researching gun control for a speech I am scheduled to give. I was wondering if you could send me any information on how to persuade others to come to my side. By the way, it is a persuasive speech. I was also wondering if you could send me any reliable info. on that, too.

Thank you for your help in advance!



Sincerely,

Jessica Duram

 

[cordex]

Dear Sirs,

Sending an email to Women Against Gun Control and starting out the title with "Dear Sirs"?

Hmmm.
You could recycle an awful lot of material for this. Throw in some stats and you should be good to go.

 

[WAGCEVP]

she's been corrected on the salutation

yea I know, you start sounding like a broken record

 

[Baba Louie]

I was wondering if you could send me any information on how to persuade others to come to my side.

...and which "side" would that be? Should I assume the same side as WAGC?

Nancy, you might want to bookmark James Castilla's "I'm an anti w/ questions" thread and maybe find one or two others, such as this one, for standard reference material from THR members when asked for input.

Contrast it to some from other boards (I assume there are other BBS out there with Gun Control being a favored discussion...DU maybe?) allowing newbies a chance to see both sides of the coin (altho coins really have three sides as the edge brings the two faces together).

You might point out the "Facts" vs "Emotion" aspects of the debate, asking which side (lets load this one up) an "intelligent, thinking, rational" individual should consider joining when debating the merit of "To Control or Not To Control, That IS the Question".

Has anyone pointed out the language aspect and the sneaky use of changing/shifting semantics used in the debate? From Gun Control to Gun Safety, or the revised definition of "Assault Weapon", Handgun Control Inc renamed Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

There! The Brady Bunch grading report card system. A whole plethora of discussion on their grading system can be had, showing the disingenious (is that the right word here?) use of success vs failure when compared to actual crime statistics and the publicity it creates with zero intelligent analysis by the media.

The Commonwealth Nations (UK, AUS and CAN) and their ongoing success with disarming or registering their subject/citizens is another topic worth pointing out. You could even get some quotes from the members here who live in those respective countries, as well as members from GER or POL or the PHL to look for more international input.

Anyway, food for thought. I'm sure you've got a little essay with links on each of the things I mentioned at WAGC website. If not, maybe you could do some cutting and pasting. Refer students to the THR Library now and then as it continues to grow, or TFL Archives.

I sometimes wish we had a listing of testimonials from Anti's who "were blind, but saw the light and now can see" and vice versa.

Thank you again for all you do on the large scale. Its good to know that people are reaching out and someone like you and WAGC is there for them.

 

[obiwan1]

have her look at the 20/20 post of John Stossel's piece on gun control. That might help.

 

[WAGCEVP]

i guess we have to wait till May to find out how the first one went

----- Original Message -----
From: Racinchick21873@
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: gun control questions (ANSWERS)


thank you so much the debates arent until may but i will definetly tell you how everything turns out! you have been great help!!
~Tex