Belling 38 Special- your formula?

[gifbohane]

Starting to load some 38 special. Should I just bell until the bullet does not fall out when turned upside down, like 9mm? Should I add .020 to the case wall thickness?

I know that Hornady stipulates belling to .383 for 9mm.

I found no discussions on our forum about this topic.

 

[Obturation]

If you're using jacketed bullets just flare enough to get the bullet started . If using cast/coated make sure it's flared far enough that it won't scrape lead off as the bullets seated. If when pressing bullet into place you get slivers of lead around the mouth, you haven't flared enough. There's no exact amount that's correct but most guys flare as little as possible to extend case life.

 

[gifbohane]

Using Hornady FMJ. Sorry I omitted the detail.

 

[Obturation]

Just flare the mouth enough to get the bullet started, as long as you're not crumbling the brass up when you press the bullet in you'll be fine. Flaring and crimping reduce case life so if you're over doing either you'll end up with some split mouths after firing. I over crimp pretty much everything and know it but I can still usually get several loading until I just buy 500 more cases from once fired brass for $40something and keep going . in 38 & 357 I don't care about case life, in 454 casull & 45-70 I do care. Even 45 colt cases are expensive and I take it easier on them.

 

[cfullgraf]

If you're using jacketed bullets just flare enough to get the bullet started . If using cast/coated make sure it's flared far enough that it won't scrape lead off as the bullets seated. If when pressing bullet into place you get slivers of lead around the mouth, you haven't flared enough. There's no exact amount that's correct but most guys flare as little as possible to extend case life.

This is pretty much how I flare as well.

You can chamfer the inside edge of the case mouth to eliminate the sharp corner of the case mouth. It helps reduce scraping the bullet on seating.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Chamferring the inside of the case helps alot with the lead scraping problem. The mouth of the case gets little dings in it from the tumblers and rough handling.
I put my chamferring tool in my drill press and set it for a slow speed, I can get a lot done in a short amount of time that way, when I have both hands to feed cases to it.
Only have to touch it on there and your see a shiny little line around the inside of the mouth.
edit to add:
As far as flaring goes, like everyone else here, I use the minimum flare with my M-dies that I can get a bullet to start straight.

 

[Rod47]

If you are using mixed headstamp brass and not trimming, resize a handful and measure the oal. Set your expander with the shortest cases you find. A stepped expander really works best.

 

[nevadabob]

Here's an article by Eggleston Munitions. Scroll down a bit to get to: Expanding the case mouth.

https://www.egglestonmunitions.com/articles

 

[H&R Glock]

38's were my first reloading problem. The problem turned out to be the Frankenstein brass I was and am currently using. I have once fired, range pick ups and "God knows" brass. All varied in case thickness, length and hardness as well as what I call springyness.
This resulted in re-loads that would not quite chamber or pass the "plunk test."
I try to bell my cases so the bullet will just start to enter the case so belling the case mouth is important. Unfortunately, because of all the variations in cases, my belling would go from almost none to too much.
Case length varied so I had to seat the bullets to the middle of the cannelure.
The cases that had an excessive bell were causing the failure of the plunk test.
The cure was for me to get a Lee factory crimp die. It clamped the brass just right for a good free plunk.
Measuring and trimming the brass is too labor intensive, but would have cured most of my troubles. Who trims 38 brass?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Who trims 38 brass?

I just trimmed 800-1000 pre-sorted W-W once fired cases; there is a huge variation in .38Spl case length. These all started as W-W Match Wadcutter loads which I'd fired through my PPC revolver about 30 years ago. For my competition ammo, I really like to get a uniform crimp on the 170gr Hi-Tek coated bullets. It puts my mind at ease when engaging 40 yard targets. I also like enough crimp so that a squib doesn't clear the case mouth and tie up the cylinder when running through a stage.

Even when shooting plated bullets, I've always crimped to the middle of the cannelure. What I've found works best for smooth reloading and not shaving coating or plating is using a M-die profiled expander (Lyman, RCBS, Redding) to form a seat to hold the bullet straight as it enters the seating die. I've taught folks that I've introduced to reloading to expand the case mouth enough so that you can invert the case and the bullet doesn't fall out.

 

[Obturation]

I also like enough crimp so that a squib doesn't clear the case mouth

Me too.
I trim for consistent mouth flare and crimp. But usually only the first reload then I let them do what they're going to do. I don't see much stretching on 38/357 so it doesn't seem to be an issue once it's trimmed.

 

[cfullgraf]

As a side note to my post #5, chamfering the inside of the case mouth is a one time thing unless you trim your hand gun cases--which I almost never do.

 

[Lafitte]

Bell just enough to start the bullet into the case without damage to the bullet. That is the first time that I have heard of the "turn it upside down" test. Sounds like it would be overworking the brass resulting in more splits.
Lafitte

 

[Walkalong]

Who trims 38 brass?

I do, for reasons you mentioned, range brass, which is all different lengths, makes expanding and crimping more consistent. Trim, chamfer, deburr, shoot it until it splits.

 

[Obturation]

I do, for reasons you mentioned, range brass, which is all different lengths, Trim, chamfer, deburr, shoot until it splits. Makes expnding and crimping more consistent.

Nothing worse than working through a pile of brass only to see case mouth not meeting up with the cannelure / crimping groove. That drives me bonkers. I've bounced around on this for a while, trying to avoid trimming plinking rounds and aiming to seat directly in the center of the groove so a little longer or shorter still ends up just fine. That doesn't really work though, inevitably your going to set the seating depth off a case that is the longest of the bunch or worse, the shortest and now either you pull all of the bullets slightly forward and press again or you just deal with an inferior crimp. Not a big deal on 38 special. A big deal on a heavy magnum that will pull bullets under recoil. I've seen about .010" bullet pull under the best conditions in a 5" SRH firing 360 grain bullets @ 1450 after the first 5 have been fired. I could only imagine if the crimping groove wasn't fully engaged.
Plus it just makes your ammo look sloppy with various amounts of cannalure showing at the case mouth, sloppy ammo is scary ammo- no thanks.
Trim once, cry once.

 

[Walkalong]

Trim once, cry once.

Yep, although we are in the minority here, so many people never trim revolver brass.

 

[cfullgraf]

Who trims 38 brass?

Trimming 38 Special cases, virtually never. Most of my 38 Special loads are target level wadcutter loads but a few standard level 38 Special loads once in a while. I've been taper crimping these rounds for close to a decade. Taper crimping is not as finicky for case length.

Full power 357, 41, 44, and 460 Magnum loads full power magnum loads are a different matter. A consistent roll crimp is important and uniform case length is necessary for that.

38/45 Clerke cases get trimmed as part of the forming process, but that is really part of the original question.

30 Carbine fired in an M1 Carbine is the only straight walled case that I have to trim routinely.

Otherwise, I do not trim hand gun cases.

 

[Varminterror]

Who trims 38 brass?

I trim all of my brass, 38 included.

 

[mdi]

It's difficult to shove a .357" slug into a .353" tube without any "entry way". Don't overthink this step, you are just providing an easy entry for a bullet into a case. No formula, just flare the case mouth a little larger than the base of the bullet. No need to invert the case to see if bullet stays, no need to measure and make your flares to +/- .005" tolerance. Flare a case, set a bullet on the flare. Is the case mouth larger than the bullet base? If so, that's enough flare. I suggest to new reloaders to use as much flare on a case mouth to get good shootable ammo now, and worry about case life later. Even after the panic 38 Special brass is easily found and inexpensive. If you use "too much" flare the case won't enter the seating die, that's the limit of flare (which is removed by crimping)...

 

[9mmepiphany]

That is the first time that I have heard of the "turn it upside down" test.

It is just a easy Pass/No Pass value that works well to explain how much expansion is needed when setting the die. I've found that most folks don't expand enough when starting to set up their dies. "Just enough to start the bullet" is about as precise as "a dallop" or "a pinch"

Sounds like it would be overworking the brass resulting in more splits.

When was the last time you've seen a split case mouth on a .38Spl case...how many times had it been reloaded previously?

We're talking about handgun cases here, specifically .38Spl cases. You're more likely to encounter cases with splits down the sides of the body. Granted I don't reload my cases that many times, as I'm working my way through a stash to 10k I've saved over the years.

When using an M-profile expander, you're actually working the case mouth less as you aren't flaring/tumpeting the brass. The die expands the case mouth area so that it forms a seat, with parallel sides, for the bullet