Beretta 92 incident - powder blast in my face

[lowelldogger]

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping you could help me figure out what happened at the range today while shooting my Beretta 92. Luckily I was not seriously injured. Here's what happened:

I was shooting at 25 yard target and halfway through the mag I squeezed the trigger and BAM! I was hit by a blast wave of micro shrapnel. I was momentarily stunned and had shouted out in pain. My buddy looked over and said "man you are bleeding". Luckily it was just a few small wounds on my lips and cheek. When I regained my composure I tried to figure out what had occurred. Here are the facts:

1) The brass case failed to extract from the chamber
2) The primer was intact and looked normal
3) The shape of the spent case looked normal (no bulges or anything)
4) I was able to easily rack the slide to remove the case after it had been fired (nothing was jammed up).
5) There was black carbon all the way down one side of the case (much more than you see normally)
6) The barrel was free of obstruction
7) Upon examination, the pistol looked sound and did not appear to have taken any damage
8) The pistol functioned properly after this incident.
9) The ammo was Winchester White Box 115 grn.
10) This Beretta 92 is like new and has < 500 round count.
11) The pistol was slightly dirty and dry but nothing too bad.

Do you have any ideas what happened? I'm a little alarmed by this incident and would appreciate any input. Thanks.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I SOUNDS like you had a hot round. Was the sound and recoil much greater than you expected? Powder can inflict skin damage.

I don't understand the micro shrapnel, though, especially if the case failed to extract and was intact.

Never had such an issue with mine.

I know you said there's no apparent damage and that the pistol functioned properly afterwards...but it might be worth your while to have it examined by a gunsmith. And if you saved the case, take it with you, along with a few others you've fired from the gun for comparison.

 

[pretzelxx]

Put up a picture of the brass if you can, the slide and the firing line hole. Maybe it'll give a minute indication to a strong eye.

 

[lowelldogger]

RetiredUSNChief, I could not tell if it was louder or if the recoil was more since I had ear protection on and I was immediately stunned by the blast. As far as the micro-shrapnel goes, the wounds were tiny dots, about the size of a pin head. I figure it was some sort of powder burn. I've included some pics of the case (the pistol is not currently available as it is in my friend's safe). It looks to me like the discoloration is not as much carbon but some sort of heating affect because if you look at it in the light it has a purplish hue.

 

[lowelldogger]

Here is the primer. It is worth noting that this pistol has a 100% perfect track record up until this afternoon.

 

[pretzelxx]

I would report a hot load to the mfg with the numbers on the box. That could be potentially risking someone else's limb or eyesight

 

[rcmodel]

It wasn't a hot round.
It was a very light load.

The primer and case show no signs at all of an over-pressure event.

The load was so light, it failed to expand the case enough to seal the chamber.

So hot gas & unburned powder leaked out clear past the case wall seal and blew unburned powder back in your face.

That's why it has black soot it's whole length.

rc

 

[pretzelxx]

Yeah that. But still, give the data and images to the mfg so they have knowledge and can investigate further possible issues

 

[gc70]

Kudos to the OP for wearing good eye protection and avoiding the injury that hot gas and unburned powder would have caused to the eyes.

 

[WestKentucky]

Probably what rc said unless you somehow slam fired which is hard to do in a 92 so I doubt that is the case. I have had similar issues with ancient ammo that had gotten weak presumably from getting wet. I bet that schrapnel was powder that was in the process of burning. Much like what happens when a case splits in a revolver after a few too many reloads.

 

[Miked7762]

Are you sure that isn't a split case? Zoom in on picture number 3 and look at the 5:30 position near the case mouth. There's also an indicator on the interior in picture 2 on the same part of the case.

 

[jjones45]

Wwb strikes again. Now a days I try my hardest to shoot federal champion at the range since it's roughly the same price. However now that you mentioned it the same exact thing happen to me when I had my 92fs years ago. And yes it was wwb also. Weird.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

You would have known if it was a hot load, hearing protection or not. There is a very noticable difference in sound, even with hearing protection. The difference in recoil would have likewise been very noticable, hearing protection or not. In fact, the change in pressure wave from the muzzle blast would likely have been noticable as well.

If you didn't get any of this, then I'm inclined to agree with rcmodel...it was a very light load. The shell didn't eject likely because the slide did not move enough to do so. Gasses escaping around the shell in the firing chamber would have left the black mark along the side of the shell, and the escaping gases and particulate residue that went along with making this mark might very well have inflicted the minor wounds you described.

If this is the case, then you have no damage to your gun.

Personally, I'd report the problem to Winchester, giving them the lot number printed on the box. If they're having ammunition issues reported to them, they'll track it by lot number to see if they have a particular production issue.

 

[arspeukinen]

rcmodel is correct. Too light a load does that becausd the brass does not expand to make a seal. I learned this while making plinking loads for rifle.

 

[lowelldogger]

Thanks everyone for your prompt and well thought replies.

rcmodel, what you said makes a lot of sense to me. My only question is: With such a light load, wouldn't it likely end up to be a squib, especially given the long barrel length of the Beretta 92? I suppose there is a middle ground for either to happen.

Miked7762, I took a close look at that casing and there are no splits. Thanks for looking closely at the pics and providing feedback.

gc70, I confess, I was NOT wearing eye protection and was merely lucky. This is a LESSON LEARNED for me because our faces are basically at the mercy of quality control.

RetiredUSNChief, I now agree that I would have mentally noted if there was increased sound or pressure and it leads me more to rcmodels conclusion, especially after the testimony of WestKentucky and arspeukinen.

pretzelxx, I am going to contact winchester customer support and tell them what happened. Unfortunately, there are 8 different numbers printed on the bottom of the WWB box. Which one is the lot number?

 

[rcmodel]

The lot number should be stamped on the inside of the flap of the ammunition box.

rc

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

If you can't figure out which is the lot number, then peal the box open at the seam and scan both sides of it into your computer. Or photocopy both sides if you want to send this snail-mail.

 

[lowelldogger]

A full report has been submitted to Winchester. If they have any additional insight, I'll post it to this thread.

 

[PGT]

interested to hear what they say

 

[lowelldogger]

Well, it's been a week and still no response from Winchester. I sent them detailed information plus the pictures.

 

[lowelldogger]

Update:

Winchester got back to me. They requested the spent case, remaining ammo, and pistol, which I sent to them (they paid for shipping). They said they could not find any problems with any of the above items and offered no theories on what happened. They sent my pistol to Beretta for further investigation and sent me a $35 check for the rounds I sent them. Overall I'm satisfied with how Winchester handled this but I wish they would offer me at least a theory on what went wrong! I don't think Beretta will find any issues with my pistol but time will tell.

 

[rcmodel]

What went wrong is exactly what I said in post #7.

A light powder charge didn't expand the case enough to seal the chamber.
Gas leaked past it out the back, and you got hit with powder gas and unburned powder granules.

rc

 

[lowelldogger]

I agree that what you stated is what went wrong, but I wish Winchester would have stated that as a possibility instead of saying they didn't find anything wrong. What I was looking for was an explanation from them.

 

[Drail]

This is precisely why I only shoot my own handloads. Mass produced factory ammo will always have a percentage of rejects. That weren't rejected. Over the years I have seen factory rounds with primers inserted backwards, crushed in sideways, and cases with no flash hole.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

RC hit it spot on. While working up loads in various pistols I loaded below minimum and ended up with a very similar incident. The key is the soot all down the case - it did not seal the chamber. Just enough powder to poop the bullet out the end of the muzzle and not enough to function the slide and extract the spent case.

Good job on wearing your eye protection. It may have saved your eyes and this is why we *always* wear eye protection.

VooDoo