Beretta 92 Slide Slap Problem

[Confederate]

Years ago, I heard about the controversy surrounding the military Beretta 92 pistol and slide separation and didn't give it much thought. But then I spoke in passing to the fellow in charge of all Navy small arms acquisition, and he assured me there was a problem with the pistol. He maintained strongly that it wasn't an ammunition problem, but a problem with the gun.

He told me that some guns go on indefinitely without problems, but that anytime after about 5,500 rounds, any of the military guns can fail (this was back in the mid-90s). Further, he said that none of the tested guns showed any signs of fatigue before failing, even when examined with powerful microscopes. Some passed with flying colors and failed 200 rounds later. No telltale fractures popped up, hairline or otherwise.

Were these problems present only with military pistols? How about Italian pistols? And were there any similar problems with Taurus 92/96 pistols?

Beretta was said to have beefed up a potentially troublesome area on some guns, but I don't know what the problems were and whether they affected civilian/Italian guns.

 

[Nick5182]

From what I understand, it was an ammo problem, with the military using the higher pressure 9mm NATO. As far as I know the problem was remedied with the 92FS, and the slide was beefed up to handle more pressure. If you are going to be using +P or +P+ with the 92, it'd be wise to get a heavier poundage recoil spring, just to be safe.

 

[918v]

Go to berettaforum.com

With proper maintenance, the only thing that will break is the locking block (a $50 part). Change the recoil spring regularly, stay away from +P+ ammo, and your gun will last a long time. Los Angeles County Sheriff's department, in 1995, had at least two 92F's with over 50,000 rounds through them, but they were using 147gr Black Talon duty ammo and 115gr American Eagle standard pressure for training.

 

[LawofThirds]

I've heard that it was a combination of +p+ super hot military ammo and a small batch of slides with an unusual steel makeup that made them more prone to be brittle. The combination of the two resulted in the sudden failures, rather than the slow crack spreading into a failed slide that overly hot ammo would have normally produced.

 

[halfded]

FS = fixed slide. The hammer pin has a rounded head that fits a slot in the slide, keeping it where it belongs in the event of locking block failure.

BTW, I don't think the slide to forehead incidents were ever substantiated.

 

[Miked7762]

LawofThirds is right, it was a combination of the two things. A batch of slides originally destined for the French used some odd steel provided by France. These were instead used on guns sent to the US Army and were the ones which broke.

A broken locking block won't cause the slide to fly off the frame, the slide itself has to break on both sides for this to happen.

 

[Confederate]

The fellow I spoke to (and this is a firsthand report) said the ammo was standard ball ammo, not machinegun ammo, which is what I had heard. Second, yes, there were a number of slide separations that resulted in serious facial lacerations. And three, he was very upset by what he said was a concerted coverup involving both Beretta and the Navy (including the Marine Corps). We were both working for the Naval Sea Systems Command at the time, so his identity was not an issue.

What I don't know is whether the metallurgy on the Italian pistols and the military pistols was the same. I also have been told that the Beretta modifications don't actually strengthen the gun, but merely keeps the slide from separating from the frame.

With the gun's size, one would logically assume it would be a very strong gun; but if it can't even handle +P 9mm ammo, I, for one, would be disappointed. My S&W 659 is all stainless steel and will handle the more powerful loads without problem. I used to think the 92's frame was very robust because of its size, but I apparently was wrong. (I've also heard the original Italian frames hold up fine.)

If I spend $600 for a gun the military is buying for $200 or so, I don't want to have to have an $80 part on hand in case the gun breaks! I also don't want to have to replace the mainspring to keep the gun from breaking. If the mainspring on my 659 goes South, the gun may malfunction, but it doesn't break. And many people have never replaced their springs with S&Ws or even Glocks (which I'm not particularly fond of).

 

[GLOOB]

Has ANYONE, ANYWHERE, EVER outside of the military, reported this problem before? If so, I've never heard/read about it. The only stories I've heard all point back to some issues in the military. So I wouldn't worry too much, if I owned one. The fixed slide version, at least.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the problem, whatever caused it, was addressed by Beretta is 2 ways many years ago.

one was the fix to keep to slide from flying off the frame (FS models)

the other was a redesign of the locking block to make it less prone to fracture...they changed the angle that the "ears" came off the "body"

 

[REAPER4206969]

Are we really still discussing a minor issue that was corrected 20+ years ago?

 

[918v]

If I spend $600 for a gun the military is buying for $200 or so, I don't want to have to have an $80 part on hand in case the gun breaks! I also don't want to have to replace the mainspring to keep the gun from breaking. If the mainspring on my 659 goes South, the gun may malfunction, but it doesn't break. And many people have never replaced their springs with S&Ws or even Glocks (which I'm not particularly fond of).

Guess what?

You have to replace the recoil spring on ALL guns to keep them from breaking. Springs do wear out.

 

[REAPER4206969]

You have to replace the recoil spring on ALL guns to keep them from breaking. Springs do wear out.

You're blowing my mind, man!

 

[mljdeckard]

I am not at all concerned about getting a slide in the teeth. I don't like the M-9, but I have never heard anyone substantiate the idea that they are more or less likely to do this, explode, turn pink, or otherwise malfunction than any other pistol.

 

[duns]

You can read the official details of the failures here
http://archive.gao.gov/d16t6/136824.pdf
http://archive.gao.gov/d15t6/137930.pdf

Frame cracks and slide cracks occurred in early production models due to fatigue. The problems appear to have been rectified in about 1989 through a combination of design changes and quality control improvements. I haven't heard of any problems since. I have a Beretta 92FS and chose it because I think it is the most tried and tested handgun on the planet.

 

[Bovice]

The M9/92FS has nothing wrong with it. I'd like to get one someday. No rush on it, just one day, just because.

Every time I see one I think Lethal Weapon.

 

[Steve in PA]

Every fun...........that means every gun..........needs to have springs changed. You think S&W does something special to keep from having to replace springs?? Whoever thinks that is very dillusional.

I've have a Beretta 92FS that I have had for over 20 years. I did have a locking block fail around year 15.......but it was the older style locking block, not the newer design the with radius relief cuts.

The Beretta is a big pistol for a 9mm, but other than that there is nothing wrong with it. Don't like the size............buy a smaller pistol.