Beretta M9 Failures

[IdahoLT1]

IMO, expecting a firearm that you stake your life on will function 100% of the time is a big flaw. If you never train for failures, the probability of it effecting you when the time comes increases. My berettas have all been 100% but that doesn't mean they will when its needed.

 

[SwampWolf]

My cheap, often_abused Hi Point, on the other hand, has 750 rounds through it with one ammunition-related FTE (deformed cartridge lip coming out of the box). No other malfunctions. At all. And a better trigger. Beretta should learn a few things about quality handguns.

Has anybody notified the armed forces about this little bit of insight? In these financially stressed times it's hard to ignore the budget savings that would be realized by transitioning from the Beretta to the Hi Point. Not only would we save money but we'd get a better pistol in the exchange. What a plan!

 

[Realbigo]

What after market Mags would you folks w/ 92's w/ thousands of rounds fired recommend?

 

[Realbigo]

Rocketmedic, here's my anti 92 rant, right smack dab in the middle of a Beretta love fest thread. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6594920#post6594920

 

[mljdeckard]

The reason the armorer isn't fixing it is that we don't exactly have one. We are spread all over the theater, and we are on our own. I'm more qualified to tinker with it than the armorer/supply guy. The safety lever needs to be removed and the channel cleaned, and I would prefer to replace the safety lever and firing pin block completely, but where I am, with no real support, if I start punching out the roll pins and damage something trying to put it back together, I'm oodscray.

I already did some digging and decided that the best thing to do is keep it clean and well-lubed, and check it frequently, which I do. This goes back to the army's go/no-go system of equipment maintenence. From their point of view, if it's kept clean and lubed, it's a go. They don't have a space for "go, but with an asterisk". (This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has been in the army.) And I can't resist one little jab as I part, but if this were a Glock, I doubt these kinds of problems would pop up so easily, and if it were a 1911, if they did pop up, I could easily replace the bad parts. For pete's sake, I could order a new set of guts from Midway and switch them out myself with a detail strip. Maybe this means I need to learn more pistol systems. But on the other hand, I really don't want to.

 

[Fastcast]

And I can't resist one little jab as I part, but if this were a Glock, I doubt these kinds of problems would pop up so easily

Maybe but more friendly fire would probably be certain.

 

[mljdeckard]

Why? And which is it, probably or certain?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'll bet if you wrote to Beretta USA on your own, they'd just send you the parts.

 

[Fastcast]

Why? And which is it, probably or certain?

Really? ..... A certain probability.

 

[mljdeckard]

Yes, really, why?

 

[GLOOB]

Fastcast, I think it's imperative we replace all firearms with sharp sticks to completely eliminate, with certainty, any probability of friendly fire. Just look at the death toll in the Austrian Army. Of course, with the abundance of sharp sticks around, everyone should also be mandated to wear safety goggles at all times. But the eventual goal would be where we can just sit down with enemy forces and settle our differences with a game of chess - using oversized plastic game pieces with all sharp edges removed. Even then, I think the safety goggles should remain mandated, because you never know.

 

[DenaliPark]

Rocketmedic, here's my anti 92 rant, right smack dab in the middle of a Beretta love fest thread. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6594920#post6594920

Any machine can and will fail! I noticed you didn't identify what the issue with your issue M9 was, broken locking block? The M9 is a superb combat arm, its reliability legendary, and rightfully so. However, they are not Glock's, they must be maintained and properly lubed.

Any weapon that fails when you need it most due to mechanical failure, is not going to become endeared to you. Human nature...As to your other question about magazines, I'd use only MecGar mags if you're re-deploying into the desert with the M9, I have extensive experience with them and have found them to be superior....

 

[mljdeckard]

I was told, (and my experience reflects this,) that there was a generation of magazines that the army used that were faulty. Mine are new contract, and they work fine. I had the privilege of talking shop with an ancient Special Forces CW5 armorer in his shop about many things. There was a generation of block that was weak and would crack with repeated use of +P (NATO ammo is hotter than commercial) 9mm. He showed me some that had cracked. But he also said that it was long ago and all of those should have been switched out by now.

I was tempted to get some mec-gar mags while I was home on leave, I decided that if the mags I have work fine, I couldn't justify buying new mags for a gun I will never use outside the army.

 

[Nick5182]

my 92fs has had 1500 rounds through it with one fte about halfway through. i trust my life entirely with it.

 

[DenaliPark]

I was told, (and my experience reflects this,) that there was a generation of magazines that the army used that were faulty. Mine are new contract, and they work fine. I had the privilege of talking shop with an ancient Special Forces CW5 armorer in his shop about many things. There was a generation of block that was weak and would crack with repeated use of +P (NATO ammo is hotter than commercial) 9mm. He showed me some that had cracked. But he also said that it was long ago and all of those should have been switched out by now.

I was tempted to get some mec-gar mags while I was home on leave, I decided that if the mags I have work fine, I couldn't justify buying new mags for a gun I will never use outside the army.

The faulty magazines were in no way related to Beretta, they were ordered by DoD from Checkmate!

 

[Nick5182]

For mags I'd go with Mec-Gar flush fit 18 rounders.

 

[Grunt Medic TXARNG]

I've seen several shipments of 'new' M9 pistols that were actually just arsenal refinished - a BIG clue is when they have no white paint in the dot in the front sight blade, the half-moon under the rear sight notch, or the red dot under the safety. Additionally, when military firearms arrive either new or refinished, they MUST be stripped down, cleaned and lubricated before firing - to do otherwise is to ask for malfunctions. For some reason, we in the Army will do a religious before action PMCS before firing up a tank or a HMMWV - but we will pull a firearm out of the box and expect it to be ready to go without looking at it. This is NOT a slam on our original poster - much love to ya, brother medic! - but it is something I've seen over and over again in different Army units.

 

[Rocketmedic]

Ours looked pretty new, were cleaned and PMCSed before firing...and we still had several lemons on the firing line. Some good ones too, but enough lemons to break my faith in the M9.

 

[shep854]

"The faulty magazines were in no way related to Beretta, they were ordered by DoD from Checkmate!"--DenaliPark

Who made the magazines to Army specifications. The parkerized finish, which works very well on other magazines*, including M1911 and M14 mags, caused problems in the extremely fine sand of Iraq. Since the spec and finish were changed, the magazine problem has gone away--even for Checkmate magazines (there has never been a "dust problem" with their Park'ed M14 mags)
*And in other environments

 

[paladinFL]

Qualified today with the Army's standard M9 pistol. Clean, lubricated, and close to brand-new. Ten failures to eject, three failures to feed from new magazines, one failure to fire (light strike on the primer). Ammunition was standard Winchester-provided Army-spec 9mm. Once again, these are nearly brand-new pistols. Eight of the FTEs were stovepipes, one was a double-feed related to a stovepipe, and one was a complete failure to engage the extractor (rechambered the expended casing).

TEN failures to eject on a weapon out of 35 rounds fired is horrific- and my pistol was not the only one malfunctioning. Some were admittedly excellent, but mine and at least three others were very unreliable. Temperature was low-40s, dry, clean weapons, properly loaded magazines.

For comparison, my Hi-Point JHP 45 has 650 rounds through it with no failures of any kind.

I cannot recommend the Beretta 92 or M9 for service or concealed-carry- in my opinion, it's totally unreliable.

Amazing, I have been shooting the 92FS for almost three years and have nearly 500 rds through it with no malfunctions at all. But then again mine is perhaps 5 years old so there may be something going on at Beretta. Don't know if they have lost the contract or what but they are discontinuing the civilian model.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

500 rounds? For some, a busy day at the range is 300-500 rounds though a combat gun. I took my Beretta 92FS out the other day and shot about 150 flawlessly. My gun, which was slightly used when purchased a year ago, has had about 2000 since then with no hickups. I have not heard of any new problems with the Beretta 92 series, or any plans to discontinue.

 

[BLB68]

If the OP doesn't have an armorer able to do it for him, I think trying better magazines in it and swapping out springs as suggested up thread would be the best course of action.

What should happen, speaking as a former unit armorer (late 80s), is the unit armorer (if he's been to SAMS) should look it over, and if the parts are changeable at his level, do the repair. If not, it should go either to the next higher level armory on post (we had a Brigade level armory in Berlin, may not be the same state side or in other areas) or back to Depot for repairs.

The system is pretty simple, and works, unless it's been gutted by budget cuts since I got out.

If everyone was having a problem with the same batch of ammo, and more than 20% (I think this was the number) of a lot is bad, then the lot should get replaced, per regs. We had to shut down an M240 familiarization once on account of a bad batch of grenades.

If you want to earn the undying enmity of your First Sgt and CO, learn all of the relevant regs inside and out and make them follow them. There are a TON of little things that folks like to overlook when it comes to armory stuff, ammunition (particularly transport) and running ranges in general.

 

[Bonesinium]

Maybe I missed it, but the original post talks about extraction issues, and I see lots of talk about magazines, but nothing about the extractor. Why wouldn't you look at the extractor first? Who knows, maybe replacing that one 10 dollar part and you get a properly functioning firearm again.

I also noticed it has been a few months, any update?

 

[Man From Boot Hill]

I was in Dod Police 1995-2000 as a part of the Base closure force in the San Francisco Bay Area(Hunter's Point shipyard & Oak Naval Hosptial) and I was trained with the M9. I like the gun and have owned 3(sold 2) and I found the gun to be a blast to shoot. I did have a close call with a M9 during qual training. I was with the Sgt(also armorer for our detail)and was going thru a refesher qual with just him. We were shown the parts to check for cracks and I found a crack on the locking lug of the barrel. He said I had a good eye and I caught a problem before it became a danger for me. He swapped out the pistol in question asap! We used NATO Ball ammo and had no problems. I found it to shoot anything I bought for it, unlike my girlfrind's cougar which is fussy with ball ammo. I think you just got a gun that needs a good going over. No one said the Army is smart about weapons, look how long they stuck to single shot rifles! If the powers that be had issued lever action rifles at Little Big Horn, Custer might have survived! Think about it......
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[Rocketmedic]

We've ran over it, and it has two major issues- a cracked locking block (small, but definately there) and a very, very weak extractor. The armorer swapped them out, but for a new pistol, that's still worrying. I wonder if it actually is new or just refurbished. Anyways, I think it'll shoot better now that it's fixed, but I don't know if I'll be able to trust that particular pistol. I have been thinking of buying one for myself to really see if I like it though- I've got lots of mags, a few nice holsters, and some other kit for it already, and I need to get out of 45 and into 9mm (cost savings is huge!).

Should I try an M9 or Beretta 92? Are they concealable with a T-shirt and not-too-baggy jeans?