Berger VLD hunting performance ????

[quartermaster]

I have been working up loads for a new rifle that just loves these VLD hunting bullets. I always lean towards the Nosler Ballistic Tips when I load and most of the time they are very accurate and produce quick clean kills. I have read many pros and cons on THR about them, but i'm not looking to start that discussion.

The BTs shoot very well in this rifle, but the VLDs are awesome. My question is how do they perform on game. I always liked the BTs as they expand very rapidly on impact and I have never really worried about ricochets. Also they work well for varmints up to deer size game and anything in between. If you hit it, it's dead and the bullet doesn't go far, if it exits at all.

What do the VLDs do when shot at a muzzle velocity around 3350 FPS? I live in a very rural area, but I still think about the ricochet effect. I've heard that they rapidly expand after a couple of inches of entry, but I don't believe I have ever spoke to anyone whom has had real experience using them. Hopefully a few of you guys can shed some light on the subject for me. If it matters, I'm talking 25 cal. QM

 

[Jdillon]

Two Oryx and an elk this year using 155 gr. VLD's. The elk and one Oryx were shot with a 30.06 and the other Oryx with a .300 Wn Mag. All clean one shot kills.

 

[A.Rifleman]

Writer John Barsness reports that Berger VLD's stop deer faster than other bullets. Berger has even come out with a VLD "Hunting" line of VLD's.

A search of the net may find such reports by Barsness.

Here buck taken at 280 yards with one shot from my 30-06 with a Berger 155gr Hunting VLD.

 

[quartermaster]

Nice deer and very nice looking rifle.

I know the VLDs are deadly, but wondering what happens to the bullet on impact and pass throughs. Have you ever recovered one? Do they expand rapidly enough or disintegrate negating the ricochet danger. It is a concern of mine, should I want to shoot a woodchuck or something like that and may not have a varmint rifle available at the time.

 

[Otto]

"The VLD Hunting bullet penetrates through the initial 1” to 3” of tissue and bone depending on impact velocity and then quickly fragments sending a tremendous amount of hydrostatic shock and fragments into the surrounding vital organ ’s tissue."

This is a quote from Berger but they don't say what caliber, velocity or even which animal.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've taken two deer with the 115gr .257" Berger VLD from the .257Roberts @ 2,900+fps, and one with my .257wby @ 3,300fps. (I have some 210gr .308", but haven't loaded any for my .300RUM).

In every instance, the bullets penetrate ~2-3" and then expanded violently. In each instance, the bullet exited the chest cavities (all three were broadside chest/lung shots), and the deer collapsed and were DRT (dead, right there). Much the same as a spine hit with typical bullets.

In actuality, this is essentially the performance I get from the 115gr .257" Nosler B.T. However, the BallisticTip on impact with hard tissue (bone) has failed to give significant penetration, resulting in lost game. I don't know how the Berger will fare given the same bullet placement.

Do be sure to use the "Hunting" version of the bullets. The "target" versions actually have thicker jackets and are said to not expand reliably.

 

[Clark]

I hunted with ballistic tips, triple shocks, and hunting VLDs.

In 2011, I went back to BTs, because the VLDs were not always killing with one shot.

That said, there are guys saying the exact opposite of what I am saying. The problem is we never get much terminal ballistics data, and it is never well controlled. So we operate on the few anecdotes we witness.

I aim for the lungs, and the ballistic tips get the job done all the way down to 1800 fps in 270 and 7mmRemMag.

 

[Grumulkin]

A deer taken with a 115 gr. hunting VLD out of a 25/06. A single bullet entered a rear leg as the deer was departing and killed it.



The exit wound on a pronghorn antelope taken at about 292 yards with a 168 gr. VLD out of a 300 Weatherby Magnum. That was before a distinction was made between hunting and target VLDs.

 

[mnhntr]

I have had a hard time with the seating of these. I am switching back to the SMKs.

 

[gamestalker]

Mnhntr, what type of seating issues are you having, and with which cartridge? In all the years I've reloaded I've never had any rifle bullet present seating problems. Pistol bullets can be problematic, depending on whcih cartridge and bullet, but there are other factors to cope with for seating pistol bullets that one may not encounter with rifle bottle neck stuff.

 

[mnhntr]

The VLDs are very sensitive to seating depth and instead of spending all that time and money I have bought some 142gr SMKs. I bought 100 140gr Hunting VLDs, and shot 4 powder charges at the lands and 10, 20, and 30 thousandths off the lands. Berger recommends even more trial depths. I will skip it and shoot the SMKs which are way less sensitive. I am shooting a .260 Remington in a Savage 12 LRP.

 

[WVRJ]

I killed a whitetail last fall with a 155 gr hunting VLD out of a 308,and it performed exactly like the folks at Berger said it would.The shot was a little over 100 yards on a steep downhill angle,and the buck dropped in his tracks.Expansion was violent after the first 3",and the bullet pretty much went to pieces inside the chest cavity.My buddy's daughter shot a doe at about 300 yards with a 6.5 BR with a 140 gr VLD,and the performance wasn't at all good.She hit the deer 3 times at 300,and had to walk up on it and finish it at close range.My 308 was turning about 2850 at the muzzle,and the 6.5 was turning 2400.I would have to say she was pushing the range with the rifle she was using.Two bullets were recovered and all they did was break in two at about where the hollow point ends.They're like anything else,use em with some sense and they'll work.I'll use them again this year,but she's gonna make some changes.They are picky about seating depth,and my long throated 700 does shoot them better if they're loaded longer than the magazine will allow.I seat mine in the 08 to 2.820,and they still shoot plenty good for hunting,but other bullets will group tighter at the mag length seating depth.

 

[quartermaster]

WVRJ, According to Sierra infinity, the 6.5 leaving the muzzle at 2400 fps is going a bit over 2000 at 300 yards. I would think it still should work at those velocities. Watching the TV show, The Best of the West, these guys are killing elk at 800 + yards. I would think the velocity at that distance would be quite slow also. I'll have to look into it further.

Possibly were they the match bullets? The first batch of VLDs that came out , supposedly, according to Berger were a hunting and match combination. Now they make both. I compared them visually last night and they look identical to me, but possibly constructed with different jackets or something not visable. Or I suppose it may be a ploy to sell more bullets.

I'm sure they will work adequately on medium size game for killing, but my questiion is, if I kill a woodchuck or coyote with them at 3200 fps+, what condition is the bullet in upon exit. I wonder if they will blow up in the short thickness of this game as a BT will or if they will be relatively unaffected. Maybe they are not an ideal varmint bullet. I may have to stick wth the BTs for that type of hunting. I know they work. I once killed a woodchuck with a 25 cal 100 grain and it blew the whole back of it out. I wish Berger made a designated 25 Cal VLD desined bullet.

I guess I may have to try them and see what happens.

 

[A.Rifleman]

Quartermaster,

You wrote: "Nice deer and very nice looking rifle.
I know the VLDs are deadly, but wondering what happens to the bullet on impact and pass throughs. Have you ever recovered one? Do they expand rapidly enough or disintegrate negating the ricochet danger. It is a concern of mine, should I want to shoot a woodchuck or something like that and may not have a varmint rifle available at the time."

Thanks for the compliments on the rifle. I am proud of it.

What a neat town name you live in! "Narrowsburg"! I looked it up and its way out in the country.

As far as your concern with Berger VLD's on going through an animal and ricochets I share that concern and the right bullet for chucks and making sure of our background on all shots is necessary. I would consider the VLD's about like other bullets in that respect.

For instance shooting some pest with your 100 gr .25" bullet is not 'ricochet' ideal.

I am just using the VLD's for something new. Barsness said they stop deer faster and why not knock them off faster?

By the way; I read your mention of woodchuck hunting. Do you still have woodchucks there? Chuck hunting was a big deal to me and I hunted them in CT, VT and NY. along the NY border with New England was some of the best chuck land around and now the coyotes have killed all the chucks. I have the time and gear to hunt them and they are gone..

 

[quartermaster]

A.Rifleman, I think I will be shooting the load for the 115 VLDs. They shoot very accurately in this rifle. All the pics that I see of deer show pretty deep penetration, IMO too much for woodchucks unless of course they happen to be standing in front of the berm on my range. If I look through my rifle collection, I'm pretty sure I could find another accurate rifle or 2 rifle for chucks. LOL

I used to have quite a few woodchucks around, but it seems there must be some kind of a disease (metallic type) which has wiped most of them out. It's time to start doing something about the coyotes now. Their population seems to be growing rapidly. They don't show themselves very often, but I know they are around as they howl like crazy nights and whenever the fire siren goes off. QM

 

[Clark]

This is some of the anecdotes I can remember

2008 killed 4 deer 130 gr 270 ballistic tip 2875 fps muzzle, kills were between 400 and 500 yards. using hold over.
2008 could not seem to hit any of 76 walking elk at 625 yards, 270 ballistic tip 2875 fps muzzle fired 13 rounds. using hold over
2009 killed 5 deer 130 gr 270 ballistic tip 2875 fps muzzle, kills were between 329 and 500 yards. dialing elevation
2010 killed 2 deer 180 gr VLD 7mmRM 3000 fps muzzle, kills were between 50 and 400 yards. dialing elevation
2010 killed 1 deer 162 gr SST 7mmRM 3100 fps muzzle, kills was at 400 yards. dialing elevation.
2011 killed 1 deer and 1 antelope 150 gr ballistic tip 7mmRM, 3200 fps muzzle, kills were between 70 and 410 yards. dialing elevation

The VLDs required many shots to finish off the animal. The bullets went through without killing.

But I do not have enough data. It was only 2 deer that refused to fall down, and I followed them around putting more and more holes in them.
We often make decisions on scant info, but my scant info is telling me to stick with ballistic tips.

There are lots of guys on the internet forums with the exact opposite experience with hunting VLDs.

 

[quartermaster]

Hey Clark, Thats some pretty interesting statistics there. Sometimes, I can't remember what I did yesterday.

I like the Ballistic Tips also. Nosler makes a darn good bullet. My 270 WSM likes Barnes and this gun likes the VLDs, but it does shoot the BTs pretty good also, just not quite as good. I generally have a pretty good selection of bullets to try when I start working up loads, but somehow, someway, the BTs always seem to shoot best for me with the exception of the 2 that I mentioned. I think they perform very well too.

The VLDs will shoot some extremely small groups from this rifle, probably more accurately than any other rifle or load that I have, but the BTs will shoot 1/2 to 5/8, all this of coarse if I haven't had too much coffee.

Maybe I'll load a few VLDs just to have when I want to impress myself and use the BTs the rest of the time. QM

 

[mnhntr]

If you do not want to mess with the trials of seating depth then check out the new Berger Hybrid VLD

 

[quartermaster]

What is the hybrid VLD?

 

[mnhntr]

Berger has a new bullet out they are calling the hybrid. It is between a VLD profile and a SMK profile.

 

[A.Rifleman]

Clark,

You wrote:
"The VLDs required many shots to finish off the animal. The bullets went through without killing.

But I do not have enough data. It was only 2 deer that refused to fall down, and I followed them around putting more and more holes in them."

I find the above difficult to believe!

Is this your experience or what you read or heard?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Clark, sounds like you were using the "Target" VLD's as opposed to the "Hunting" VLD's which have the earlier "thinner" jacket. I've seen, heard of some similar instances of the VLD's not expanding, but ditto the Sierra Match King's.

FWIW; I had a buddy use a Remington M721 in .270 I had while in college back in the mid-70's. He borrowed the rifle and some Speer 130's loaded with 55.0gr of IMR4350 to deer hunt in W. Alabama in Jan 1978. He shot a ~225lb buck 4 times through the chest, and finally, shot it through the neck breaking the neck with the 5th shot at "contact" distance as the neck had powder blast/burns on it. The bullets just punched neat little .28" holes through the deer. (early "hot-core" bullets, I still have the yellow plastic box the bullets came in filled with "bicycle" hardware for old Campagnolo cycle equipment from when I was racing in the '70's.... in it in a tool box..... Speer bullets long ago shot up, though...
Bad batch of bullets, I suppose, but they were dog-gone accurate from that old Remington....

 

[Clark]

This is from the email confirmation for my order for my VLD bullets from Powder Valley.

Sunday June 27, 2010 03:25:42 AM

1 BER24527 BERGER .243 / 6MM 95 GR MATCH HUNTING VLD (100) 27.07 27.07
1 BER28503 BERGER .284 / 7MM 140 GR MATCH HUNTING VLD (100) 38.02 38.02
1 BER27501 BERGER .270 130 GR MATCH HUNTING VLD (100) 34.04 34.04

[

I don't think I have ever bought any target VLDs. Just hunting VLDs in 2010.

The 7mm 180 gr hunting VLD would go through a mule deer, and I would another hole, and then another hole.
I did with 2 deer I think, three shots each time.

Maybe at 3025 fps muzzle, I was standing too close, and the terminal velocity was too high.

Some of the follow up shots were not from a bipod, but free hand, standing close. Maybe the shot placement was not good.
I would need to kill a lot more than 2 animals to be conclusive.

 

[LoonWulf]

Ive used the 168s from my 7mm at 31 and change, performance was pretty much as advertised. Bullets seemed to clear the onside ribs then turn everything from there to the hide on the other side to mush. I only shot two deer with them, and maybe five goats. One smalish goat (50-60lbs) got hit square in the shoulder at about 30yds, the bullet completely removed the off side leg.

After i finish this box of Amax i might try the 180 bergers.