I tried them with a 30-06 and 46g of IMR4895 - disaster. Were not as bad in my 30-30 but still way too hot. Shotgun patterns if they hit paper at all at 100 yds. Found an old cast lead book from the 1970s that had a 150g lead bullet load for 30-06 using 14g of red dot. Should do about 1750-1800fps. Tried it last weekend. Shot MOA with ten at 100 yds. All were touching. Gun was a 1950s FM Mauser with a Leupold 3x9. I'm loading up twenty more, increasing powder up to 15g and see how they do. I used styrofoam as a filler to keep the powder at the primer end.