Berry's .45 acp 185 grain HBRN, bullet tilt and the redding competition seater

[RussellC]

My seater is clean as a whistle and I dont see any abnormalities . I just flared one that meadured 474.5, and still the smooth side/bulge side problem.

Oh well, doesnt really matter now that I have the Redding seater, but it absolutely drives me nuts to have tools that have something wrong with them!

I will keep an eye on the NOE site, seems like companies would be all over this one.

Russellc

 

[LiveLife]

But if the bulged rounds feed and chamber reliably, will they make a difference on target? I load all the test rounds I use and post on THR for accuracy comparisons on Pro 1000 using Lee dies.

Could you be willing to compare the two, loaded with Lee seater vs Redding seater.

I will keep an eye on the NOE site, seems like companies would be all over this one.

I for one would love to see Lee Precision produce "stepped" Powder Thru Expander in different sizing for jacketed/lead bullet diameters to sell separately and would get them for every caliber I load.

In recent years, likely due to John Lee's influence, Lee Precision has improved and upgraded many of their products. "Stepped" Powder Thru Expander would certainly highlight "Precision" in Lee Precision - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lee-precision-history.711510/

 

[RussellC]

Yes, I have several bullets left in this box, plus another box of 500. Brass is new Starline and Winchester LP primers. I dont know if I can get to the range this weekend, but standby, I will try. If not, I will get it done soon. Unless you suggest otherwise, they will be groups of 5 at 7-10 yards. I have been shooting my pistols at an outdoor range on the rifle side which is 100 yards. The shortest there is 25 yards, where recently I have started shooting pistols at. I am not quite good enough yet at this distance for "accuracy" trials, so I will go to an indoor range for this. Will 7-10 yards and 5 shot groups be good?

Russellc

 

[LiveLife]

7-10 yard should be fine to do comparison.

As jmorris suggested, 10 shot groups are better than 5.

I no longer do 5 shot groups as I agree that 10 shot groups provide much more information. And if Bart B. had his way, we all be doing 20 shot groups.

 

[Wis-Harpo]

I have the Lee Universal expander die for my .32 Remington. I just ordered the NOE 45 ACP expander and will give it a try. I too have trouble with BLAZER cases shaving plated bullets and thought it was just me having that problem. The cases are very sharp, and I have to chamfer them before reloading. I have had problems with the Auto Drum almost bottoming out and not giving a wide enough flare to the brass. I de-prime and prime off of my Lee Classic Turret Press and have an extra hole for the Lee expander die and NOE expander.

 

[RussellC]

Ok, at 10 shot groups it is. I will double up and put these bullets through both my .45 guns, both Glocks, 30s and 21SF.

I dont know if the tilted rounds are less accurate, but I would think so? Not aligned correctly? Guess I will find out.

Russellc

 

[LiveLife]

Berry's 185 gr HBRN has huge hollow base. Who knows, the large cavity may fill with gas to seal with the barrel regardless of the tilt to make not much difference on the target.

Look forward to the range report.

 

[LiveLife]

My seater is clean as a whistle and I dont see any abnormalities . I just flared one that meadured 474.5, and still the smooth side/bulge side problem.

I am curious.

So you are experiencing the one-sided bulge just with Berry's 185 gr HBRN bullets?

Do you get one-sided bulge with other bullets?

 

[RussellC]

The only other ones I have on hand are Hornady 185 XTP and Precision delta 230 RN FMJ. I believe they were Ok. I am going to load some of the 230 here in a few minutes and will try both dies and report back.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

I also have a few boxes of 230 grain RN of various types already loaded. I will look at them too, they were made with the same Lee die set.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Ok, looking at previously loaded ammo, all 230 grain RN, RMR, Precision Delta and Winchester, I do not note the problem or very slight...at least the mark is on the full circumference of the case. I loaded a couple (w/ Lee die) with precision 230 grain Delta bullets I have on hand and they do not exhibit the problem either. I tried a Hornady 185 grain XTP HP and while it does not show the ring all the way around, it doesnt have quite the buldge on one side like the Berry HBHP did in 185 grain....so a little bit of tilt.

Switching to the Redding Competition die, The Hornady XTP bullet was seated as pretty as you please, mild ring around the entire case.
So the HBRN gives my particular Lee seater troubles, the XTP to some degree, but the types of 230 grain RN were seated just fine. I am pretty sure I have some Berrys 185 grain FN, but darned if I can locate any.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Ok, I have about 100 rounds using the Redding competition seater with the 185 grain HBRN. Starting up with the same, Lee seater the only variable.

I will likely stop at 40-50 rounds...now for some range time.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

OK, I have prepared bullets, I used new Starline brass for all of them, used Winchester LPP and hand measured every powder load and OAL on each bullet so as to eliminate as many variables as possible. I made 2 different rounds, 1/2 with Lee seater, 1/2 with the Redding Competition seater. One round has 5.5 grains of Bullseye, the other round 6.3 grains of ACC #2. Both rounds are 1.27 OAL.

I have not tried the Bullseye round before, so I loaded the ACC #2 rounds as well, I have used it before. I will shoot 10 round groups with each type, at least 2 or 3 of these 10 round groups. Since they are packaged in zip locks I guess I could keep it blind. My 30S standard Mags are 10 round so that's perfect. Now for some range time. It looks like rain tues-friday, so it will definitely be indoor range. Will be back to post results of course.

I wonder if there will be an accuracy difference at 10 yards...I have read some Bullseye shooter stuff where bullet tilt was considered an accuracy problem. They shoot 25 yards or more, my shooting accuracy at that distance would introduce all sorts of variables!

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

I got to the range and fired the Lee seater rounds. I warmed up shooting both guns, with a bunch of rounds previously made, Starline brass, Winchester LPP and 230 grain precision delta RN. Powder charge was 5.5 grains of HP-38.

After a few magazine in each gun I was blasting the center ring out of two targets at 7 yards.

Setting a new target, I adjusted the distance and started firing.
Two different rounds were used here, both with the Berry's 185 grain HBRN, both set at 1.265-1.270. One batch had 6.3 grains of AA #2, one batch 5.5 grains Bullseye.

These rounds were no where near as accurate as the warm up ammo with HP-38 and 230 grain RN bullets. The Bullseye rounds were less accurate than the AA #2 rounds. Both showed elongated bullet holes in the target...leading me to think they were tumbling in flight somehow? I only fired a few of the rounds using the Redding seater, just to verify, and they seemed to also have variable accuracy and elongated holes as well.

Reading and searching, I think I may have made these rounds to hot? I dont mean unsafe hot, but reading was suggesting that lesser charges were somewhat more accurate with these particular bullets. I will post pics of the "elongated" bullet holes once camera batteries charge.

Anyone have an accurate powder charge for these Berrys 185 grain, HBRN bullets?

Looks like a little more loading will be required...

Russellc

 

[Walkalong]

W-231 as you know, but 4.9 Grs WST loaded to 1.260/1.265 OAL.

 

[RussellC]

What should I load these 185 grain HBRN to with HP38 such they are not over loaded? I used 5.5 with the 230 grain FMJ RN. I will see about getting WST.

Russellc

 

[Walkalong]

5.5 of W-231 is tops IMHO, regardless of bullet weight in the .45 ACP. The hollow base helps pressure, and of course it's a light bullet, so you're safe, but it isn't light by any means. For years I used 5.0 for plinking and 5.5 for full power with bullets from 200 to 230 Gr in .45 ACP, but W-231 data has changed over the years.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...in-45-acp-revolver-only.819951/#post-10524304

Old data. You can see some of the old W-231 data is quite hot. (4.9 Grs of WST isn't light, but not hot. About 800 FPS from a S&W 1955 Target.)

 

[RussellC]

Thanks, just looking at the bullet holes and the inconsistent accuracy I thought they may be tumbling or coming apart.

Russellc