Unburned WW231 in .45 ACP, revolver only

[Alec]

I've got a strange problem with unburned powder that seems to manifest itself only in my Colt 1917 in .45 ACP. Regardless of the powder charge, I have golden brown unburned/partially burned remnants of powder all over the shooting bench by the time I've shot a few cylinders. The same rounds in an auto are significantly cleaner.

Factory ammo doesn't seem to have this problem of leaving dust everywhere but the cases do seem sootier, which I can more readily accept as a fact of life with this gun.

I've tested various combinations of loadings, WW231 from 4.8->5.3 grains, plated .451 and lead .452, 185 and 230gr bullets, OAL from 1.204 to 1.290. The bullets have no cannelure. The hotter charges are slightly better but I still need to periodically blow powder off the bench. I don't want to make them much hotter since they already feel like lighter factory loads and this gun is old.

What could be the cause of this?

 

[243winxb]

Does your Colt have headspacing machined into the cylinder chambers.
What are the throat diameters?

 

[Walkalong]

It's making less pressure in the revolver. Mainly because of the cylinder gap. WST would likely cure that. My .45 ACP revolver likes it.

 

[243winxb]

Load a lswc and roll crimp, around 238gr cast is what the old Lyman 452423 bullet was . https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/colt-1917-moon-clip-confusion.808227/#post-10342361

 

[Alec]

It has throats but no headspacing. I don't have a .45 ACP roll crimp die. Would seating deeper help with this? I've been trying to keep OAL to spec so I can use the rounds interchangeably in an auto, and also to prevent pressure spikes.

 

[243winxb]

45-240 GR LCWC http://www.mastercast.net/ftp.mastercast.net/Hard_Cast_Bullets.html

More pressure by seating deeper should work, same as using more powder.?? My guess.

 

[Alec]

All right, thank you, but I'm still not sure why factory loads do not seem to have this problem. I am very hesitant to approach max charge.

 

[243winxb]

Neck tension is very different between brands of brass.
Have you measured the expander your using. Mine are .449" and .450"
If the brass grips the bullet harder, the powder may have a better chance to burn better.

 

[Shaq]

When I load plated bullets with no cannelure, I taper crimp them. I've never had a problem with unburned powder. Maybe the bullet is leaving the case too soon. Factory ammo is either crimped or asphalt is used to keep the bullet in place until the powder burns. If you pull a jacketed factory round, that black stuff around the bullet is asphalt.

 

[243winxb]

What primer are you using.

Primer i use is WLP. Close to a mag primer, i think, as it lights up large amounts of w296 ball powders.

 

[Alec]

Primer is Winchester. I'm about to test with Federal and deeper seated bullets today.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I like Win231 in my .38 match loads. The low pressure loads do leave a bit of "grit" in the cylinders. Up the charge if needed.
I'm using 5.7 in my .44spl loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Might I suggest a charge of 5.5gr W231 under a 230gr LRN bullet? That load has been very accurate and clean for me, it might be for you too.

I know the current Hodgdon data stops at 5.3gr but they also use an OAL of 1.200". I don't think i could push the bullet that deep safely and I won't try. My revolver likes between 1.255" and 1.265".

 

[1KPerDay]

Another vote for WST... 4.8 under a Berry's HBRN is very soft and very accurate. 5.1 under a 200 grain plated is also pretty light and very accurate. These both run fine in my 1911s, glocks, and SIGs. So you could probably back it down some in a revolver.

 

[reddog81]

Unless you're shooting in your living room a little unburnt powder is going to hurt anything. Assuming everything else is working out I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Hondo 60]

I'm still not sure why factory loads do not seem to have this problem.

Factories have access to powder blends that the average joe reloader doesn't.
And they're not about to tell you what it is.

I have a similar issue with Accurate #5 in 45 Colt.
Lighter charges leave LOTSA unburned (or better - incompletely burned) powder.
After emailing with Accurate, they said up the charge, but I'd rather not, it's got enough kick.

 

[springer99]

I found that W231/HP-38 just didn't burn well at smaller(4.5-5.0) charges in my 45ACP, using 200gr. LSWC's. For everyday target use, I eventually switched to Tite-group and my "unburnt" powder problems went away. W231/HP-38 did work well for me with 200gr. XTP's, but only at higher levels.

 

[Jack B.]

Another vote for WST... 4.8 under a Berry's HBRN is very soft and very accurate. 5.1 under a 200 grain plated is also pretty light and very accurate. These both run fine in my 1911s, glocks, and SIGs. So you could probably back it down some in a revolver.

I also use WST in 45ACP. 4.2 gr. under X-Treme 200gr. FP plated bullets. Very light recoil and very accurate. Great practice round. Easy on gun

 

[thomas15]

In addition to WST and Titegroup as others have suggested you might consider trying Clays.

 

[1KPerDay]

I also use WST in 45ACP. 4.2 gr. under X-Treme 200gr. FP plated bullets. Very light recoil and very accurate. Great practice round. Easy on gun

Wow that is light... will it run a semi-auto or are you shooting a revolver?

 

[Jack B.]

Wow that is light... will it run a semi-auto or are you shooting a revolver?

Full size Kimber Custom II ,16lb recoil spring no mods . Completely stock. Cycles fine. Never have had jam , stove pipe, etc.

 

[Walkalong]

Wow that is light... will it run a semi-auto or are you shooting a revolver?

I have had 3.5 Grs of W-231 cycle a 1911, so 4.2 Grs of WST sounds very doable. Yes, should be very light recoil.

I have used 4.9 Grs WST under a Berrys 185 Gr HBRN in revolvers for a light accurate load. It also shoots well in autos.

 

[Alec]

It might be a while before I get a resolution to this, since my range has banned lead bullets. Once I get plated bullets I will need to start the experimentation over again. Once I do, I'll update here.

 

[IMtheNRA]

I didn't get clean burns until I reached 6.0 grains of W-231 under a 230-gr FMJ. Thats close a full power load, and it is stunningly accurate in all my 45s, including the .45 ACP model 625.

 

[Walkalong]

I didn't get clean burns until I reached 6.0 grains of W-231 under a 230-gr FMJ. Thats close a full power load,

That is definitely full power, and a bit hot in my opinion. I worked up all the way to 6.1 once, based on the Midway Load Map, and it is spicy. I settled on 5.0 Grs for most range work and 5.5 for full power with a 230 Gr bullet. That's as high as I ever recommend. Hodgdon's online data stops short of that. Other load data does go as high as 5.5.