Bullet seating problem with Redding Competition bullet seater

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RussellC

Member
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
2,662
Setting up press to load my first .308 Winchester and ran into an odd problem (for me anyway). Die instructions are to raise ram, screw in die until sleeve is compressed up into die and makes contact with shell holder. Then unscrew micrometer until 2 or 3 shows, with 3 being top of the range of the threads.

With it set accordingly, I put in the first cases, one new Winchester brass, one Lapua brass and the bullet, 168 grain Hornady A-MAX. With micrometer still at top of range, I mounted a bullet to make a couple of dummies until press ready to go live.

Most of the charts I have with either of these two brass and the A-MAX show OAL of between 2.80 and one as long as 2.9), but 2.820-2.870 being common.

First press was 2.77 with micrometer full up...any further loosening was totally loose. Hmmm. Three things occured to me. One, I'm stupid and totally overlooked something. Two, I'm just going to have to screw this die out further, contra Redding's instructions, or Three, I see they have a "VDL seating stem" for skinny VDL bullets, which I really didn't think the A-Max was.....

What is the solution? Inclined to rotate the die further out of the press until proper range occurs but don't know for sure.

Russellc,
 
As to the "VDL" thing, I can see a ring on the ogive from the seater, so I dont think the bullet is bottoming out.

Russellc
 
RussellC said:
Inclined to rotate the die further out of the press until proper range occurs but don't know for sure.
Click to expand...
I did not fully understand the post, but yes, you could simply have the die body down too far.
 
What part can I clarify, would be glad to. I know you are familiar with this die. To start, they want you to screw out the micrometer part, and screw the die in press. With ram up, you screw die in and watch the spring loaded sleeve disappear into the bottom of the die until the actual die in on the shell holder. Then loosen a td to bring the number in a convenient place. Then the micrometer is screwed down until it stops. You back off a tiny amount and that is your absolute zero. Pressing past this point can damage the internals according to Redding.

Now, starting out, you screw the micrometer out until 2 or 3 is viable. They indicate this will be enough for the bullet to begin to go into the case, then you have to screw the micrometer in, press, measure until you reach the seating depth you want.

Most of the loads I am looking at call for an OAL of 2.80-2.87, with a few exceptions out side of that. So, I took a case, and a bullet (168 grain A-Max) and actuated the press, figuring it would be way long, as micrometer is screwed all the way out. Bullet came out, didnt look all that long. Putting caliper to it, it was 2.77, and I havent even began screwing it in yet! Dont remember this happening with the .223 dies just like these I have used previously.

If I missed the boat, and havent clarified sufficiently, let me know where and how and I will be happy to clarify. I was sort of surprised it came out that short, and I havent even started to adjust, micrometer is full out!

Russellc
 
Well for now my solution is to just screw the die out a turn or two and tighten it back. Now I have range to adjust and will call Redding Monday morning.

Pushes the A-MAX in right to 2.82 where I want it. The micrometer is very accurate, turned in two ticks, shaved off 2 1000ths perfectly!

Russellc
 
On a side note, the difference between Winchester and Lapua is quite noticeable. The A-MAX went in quite easily into the Winchester brass, significantly more resistance going into the Lapua brass. Measuring the neck diameter with bullet in also varies. Lapua measures right in the range of neck bushings I have when I eventually resize after first firing. The Winchester is smaller, I will have to buy more neck bushings, smallest one on hand is too large!

Russellc
 
I know Redding has special seating stems for the ELD/VDL bullets. I know my 6.5 CM set had the std seating stem and had to replace the stem. The ELD's hit the nose. There was roughly 0.050" difference between the 2 stems if my memory is any good. If it's leaving a mark on the bullet you need to polish out the edge so it smooth. Jut put in a drill and takes some 600 -1500 grit sand paper to it.
 
When I get time, I will remove that sucker an slick (slightly) it up with dremel and a little flitz paste. Ordering the other stem.

Thanks,

Russellc
 
Its ordered, but I cant help but think this may not have been the problem, because of the ring left on ogive. Ring on bullet with Winchester brass was there, but more faint. Thinner brass was much easier to push bullet in! Hopefully this will fix it, if not I can still use it with other bullets. The A-MAX does have that plastic tip thing.....Unless I'm missing something the fact die is screwed out a little further shouldn't matter, as long as bullet is seating to proper depth. I will wait to hear what Redding says before doing a large batch!

I see the ELD has that same plastic tip and appears to be very similar...

Russellc
 
I will have to look at that, in the instructions it only mentions doing that to get the zero back to the line on micrometer. Sounds like it may do this too? I will be sure to ask Redding.

Russellc
 
I don’t have my instructions in front of me but if I recall correctly. My instructions said something like screw the die all the way down then back it off just a tad to wear the sleeve is compressed almost all the way up inside not to wear the die body is actually touching the shell holder. So I think I have about 10 to 15 thousandths clearance between die body and shell holder while the inner sleeve is still touching the shell holder .

And for what it’s worth I’m sitting some Uber long 200 grain burger VLD’s and have plenty adjustment
 
Last edited:
Metal God said:
I don’t have my instructions in front of me but if I recall correctly. My instructions said something like screw the die all the way down then back it off just a tad to wear the sleeve is compressed almost all the way up inside not to wear the die body is actually touching the shell holder. So I think I have about 10 to 15 thousandths clearance between die body and shell holder while the inner sleeve is still touching the shell holder .
Click to expand...

The instructions are on line, 3.) "Screw the die into the body until the sliding sleeve (marked with the cartridge name) compresses fully into the die body. The outer die body should be touching the shell holder.

4.) "Unscrew the die from the press just enough to bring the micrometer vertical index line to the front of the press so you can read it easily. This may require as much as one full turn." "If the index mark is already facing front, unscrew the die a fraction of a turn so that there is light showing between the outside die body and the shell holder."

Performing these steps, plus others where you then screw the micrometer in until it stops, then backing it off by .010" to .015" to determine a line where it should never be tightened past. Then, you are to unscrew the micrometer knob until the index shows 2 or 3....3 being screwed almost all the way out. They note that this setting "should seat your bullets longer than you need, allowing you to measure and dial in the change in length you require without seating too deeply and having to pull the bullet."

Having done these steps (as I did previously with no problem with the .223 version) I put brass and bullet in and it came out 2.77, most 308 Winchester cartridges being about 2.80. To get enough play, I had to unscrew the die a little over 1 full turn, and just a little extra.

I was surprised at how much shorter than standard it performed with the micrometer screwed all the way out.

I can only hope that either I surmised correctly in unscrewing the die further, or the VLD type seater part (which I have ordered) is required.

Hopefully this clarifies.

Russellc
 
Walkalong said:
Yep, you need to turn necks or match bushings. No one ever ends up with only one bushing, even when turning necks or using all the same brass.
Click to expand...

Yes, the few different bushings I have were what was recommended as a good spread for .308 Winchester. With the Lapua brass they are right on. Measuring the bullet made with Lapua brass, I see .3385." With the Winchester bullets, necks only measure .3330" which is smaller than my smallest bushing. As I can't turn them larger, additional bushings in a smaller size will be required.

In comparison, 175 grain Federal Gold Medal bullets measure .3380" and Black Hills 175 grain bullets measure .337" at the necks.

Either the VLD seater is the answer, screwing die out additional turns, or advise that hasn't occurred to me from Redding is?

Russellc
 
Last edited:
RussellC said:
I see the ELD has that same plastic tip and appears to be very similar...
Click to expand...

In certain calibers and weights, the ELD’s are the exact same bullet as the old A-max they replaced.

Yes, they need a VLD stem.

Yes, you simply need to raise up the die when using the longer stem.
 
Here are the instructions that came with my 308 Redding competition seating die

y4GTZ0.jpg

My directions clearly and in bold print say something very different to the point of saying it can damage the die . Since I'm not having the issue you are , I'm going to stick with my hard copy as being correct .
 

Attachments

  • TYzXgp.jpg
    TYzXgp.jpg
    67.5 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:
If you look carefully at my posts, all that is covered.screw in until sleeve is compressed, then back off..plus, I have backed it off over a whole more turn. Screwing the die out increases the distance. They are warning against compressing it fully, bringing the shell holder against the ram and then using.

Russellc
 
Last edited:
Varminterror said:
In certain calibers and weights, the ELD’s are the exact same bullet as the old A-max they replaced.

Yes, they need a VLD stem.

Yes, you simply need to raise up the die when using the longer stem.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have the part on the way. In the mean time, it will be screwed out the additional required amount.

Russellc
 
Ok then your die is defective , for reference as to what I meant by me saying I seat uber long bullets and I'm not having that issue . Here is a Hornady 168gr BTHP and the Berger 200.20X Hybrids I load side by side . I have plenty of room to load those long bullets .

TYzXgp.jpg

I can seat the Berger bullet with both standard and VLD stems with out issue .
 
I will post what Redding tells me.I also wonder if the zeroing adjustment is just off as well.

Russellc
 
Metal God said:
Ok then your die is defective , for reference as to what I meant by me saying I seat uber long bullets and I'm not having that issue . Here is a Hornady 168gr BTHP and the Berger 200.20X Hybrids I load side by side . I have plenty of room to load those long bullets .

View attachment 839917

I can seat the Berger bullet with both standard and VLD stems with out issue .
Click to expand...
I would think they would, but maybe those bullets don't require the VLD stem? They look long and thin...Redding makes that stem for a reason, if your bullets seat with either, maybe it isn't needed for them?

Russellc
 
Mystery solved. Another opportunity to demonstrate on the world wide interweb
how dumb I can be.

Problem partially to fact that last reloading session I installed inline's modification that reverses direction of the LCT press, and using new brass that doesn't need neck sizing on this first load.

Metal God was the closest, guessing defective die. I decided to dis assemble the die and make sure something wasn't amiss. Imagine my surprise when the insides of a neck bushing die came out! Yes, defective as a bullet seater, but makes a fine bushing neck sizer!

Reversing the two in the tool head solved the problem. Amazing how accurate the micrometer on the neck die will seat a bullet. I spent several hours before dis assemble revealed the error.

Here's to wasted time,

Russellc
 
RussellC said:
Another opportunity to demonstrate on the world wide interweb
how dumb I can be.
Click to expand...

I hate when that happens :) and I'm a bit sad to say it happens to me more then I'd like :-( . Always good to figure stuff out though . If I helped , I'm glad I could .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

mattmcg
  • Locked
Interesting issue with Redding Competition Bullet Seater Die. Advice?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Otto
Otto
F
  • Locked
Redding match bullet seater die
Replies
12
Views
882
lykoris
L
O
  • Locked
Could/Should a 260 Rem bullet seater be used to seat 260AI bullets?
Replies
1
Views
643
steve4102
steve4102
B
  • Locked
Redding Competition Die
Replies
5
Views
628
ranger335v
R
berettaprofessor
  • Locked
Update; Frankford Arsenal Universal Seating Die
Replies
6
Views
1K
berettaprofessor
berettaprofessor
Back
Top