Berry's Platted bullet help / 40 S&W

[Branden967]

I purchased some of the berry's 155 grain plated bullets but I have a couple of questions about working up a starting loads. In my "Lee" reloading book I have the 155 Grain Jacketed bullets to start with 5.1 grains of Win 231 is that also correct for the plated bullets?
These are going to be shot through a glock and I really am just looking to punch paper with them.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks-

 

[rcmodel]

I would try 5.5 grains, and if it has enough power to cycle the slide, I'd call it good.

According to Lyman #49, Max with a jacketed bullet is 6.7, and Max with lead is 6.5, so you are on very safe ground starting with 5.5.

rc

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I think Berry's plated bullets are a lot tougher than they are given credit for. I'm using mid range loads for jacketed bullets with my 357mag and 9mm. I'm at around 2000 rounds so far and am very pleased with the accuracy and performance. I also use taper crimps only.

But I think you need to listen to listen to rcmodel and err on the side of caution when working up your load, I've been working on my loads for years, it never ends.

 

[Hondo 60]

While I don't reload .40S&W, I've used plated bullets for all my reloads, including 357 mag & 9mm.

I keep mine under 1200 fps & have never had a problem.

 

[[email protected]]

Also note the COL listed for the bullet. I mostly load 40 s&w for my glocks and never had a feeding issue until I tried my load in a friends desert eagle. They would not feed because they were too long for the bullet profile and they were also berrys. I Also use the 180 grain rs and out of the nine different glocks I tried a col of 1.125-1.230 worked fine. I also noticed that berrys offer a hollowbsse 155 grainer as well as a regular base which do you have. Use some dummy rounds to find a col that you like and then make an estimate on the powder charge. If the col you use is at least as long or longer than that listed start there, if it is shorter then drop it a couple thousandths just to be extra safe. Compare load data for lead and jacketed and start from there.

 

[Branden967]

Also note the COL listed for the bullet. I mostly load 40 s&w for my glocks and never had a feeding issue until I tried my load in a friends desert eagle. They would not feed because they were too long for the bullet profile and they were also berrys. I Also use the 180 grain rs and out of the nine different glocks I tried a col of 1.125-1.230 worked fine. I also noticed that berrys offer a hollowbsse 155 grainer as well as a regular base which do you have. Use some dummy rounds to find a col that you like and then make an estimate on the powder charge. If the col you use is at least as long or longer than that listed start there, if it is shorter then drop it a couple thousandths just to be extra safe. Compare load data for lead and jacketed and start from there.

I bought the solid base. Whats your load for these guys?

Again Im just punching paper with these so I dont need a supper hot load.

Thanks-

 

[Berry's MFG]

Branden967,
email me and I will give you some data as a starting point, Hodgdon should have printed data any day now and it will be in all the books for 2012 so I've been told.

 

[[email protected]]

Im sorry if I have mislead you but I dont use the 155 berrys only the 180rs berrys. I was pointing out that the col has an effect on the pressure. If the col listed for jacketed will cycle BY HAND with the berrys and if it were ME then I would start at 4.8 with that col (I did not cross check the charge you posted) just to be extra safe. If you have to go shorter than the listed col you may want to drop the charge a little more. After the initial function test you should have an idea about where to go from there. Dont rely on primers for pressure signs but measure the area at the case web for expansion. Also dont get in a hurry and make big changes in powder charge, just work the load up slowly until you get the desired reliability and point of aim/ point of impact relationship (this may not always be possiable for the combination you are using). And since you posted you are loading for a glock Im sure you have heard that if a reload even gets into the same room as a glock it will immediately blow up and as a result your truck will get poor gas mileage. That is not true but what it will at least blow up if you make poor decisions and are sloppy with your reloading. I am also sure you know about the glock bulge. My reloads dont get to the point that the case buldges and I have almost 100% reliability other than a few primers not seated fully. Let me know how it works out.

 

[raz-0]

For berry's, get velocities pretty close to jacketed for a given charge weight. So I use jacketed data and knock a tenth of a grain off. It has worked pretty well for me.

Rainier I use lead data, it's pretty close velocity wise to book data.

 

[Branden967]

Im sorry if I have mislead you but I dont use the 155 berrys only the 180rs berrys. I was pointing out that the col has an effect on the pressure. If the col listed for jacketed will cycle BY HAND with the berrys and if it were ME then I would start at 4.8 with that col (I did not cross check the charge you posted) just to be extra safe. If you have to go shorter than the listed col you may want to drop the charge a little more. After the initial function test you should have an idea about where to go from there. Dont rely on primers for pressure signs but measure the area at the case web for expansion. Also dont get in a hurry and make big changes in powder charge, just work the load up slowly until you get the desired reliability and point of aim/ point of impact relationship (this may not always be possiable for the combination you are using). And since you posted you are loading for a glock Im sure you have heard that if a reload even gets into the same room as a glock it will immediately blow up and as a result your truck will get poor gas mileage. That is not true but what it will at least blow up if you make poor decisions and are sloppy with your reloading. I am also sure you know about the glock bulge. My reloads dont get to the point that the case buldges and I have almost 100% reliability other than a few primers not seated fully. Let me know how it works out.

Ive herd and read all about the famous Glock Kaboom's. Im using the bulge buster with the GR-X die and Im trying to stay way away from the max loads.

What I have so far for OAL is 1.127 or 1.128, anything larger or in the 1.130 range gets hung up on the feed ramp when I try to cycle rounds. For the charge I went with 5.5 grains of Win 231 but Im not sure on that yet. Everything Ive read says that about 6.0 is the max load. I havent shot these yet, and Im debating on pulling them and backing down to 5.0 or 5.1.

Ive PM'ed the Berrys Guy, Im going to see what he recommends and then take it from there.

Thanks for the help guys, Ill let you know what he says.

 

[[email protected]]

Not knocking the berrys guy but I sent him a pm a few weeks ago about their 30-30 bullets and I still have not gotten a reply. I am courious as to how it gets hung up in the 1.130 col range. I have went all the way up to 1.135 with the 180 grainers. My guess is that the 150s may be shorter and have a blunter nose, do you have the RS or the FP bullets?Does it partially chamber then stop or does it make it that far. I would not pull them just yet, but how many do you have loaded up. If six is the max charge and the col that is listed for that charge is either shorter or the same length and the bullet is of a similar profile you might still be ok, but is that for lead or jacketed and what weight bullet? If you have the componets just load some additional at the 5.0 or 5.1 grain charge and see what happens. I checked the hodgon/winchester powder site and it only shows the xtp for the 155grain bullets. My expierence with the xtps is that their ongive is streatched more therefore can have a longer col. This means that at the given col there is actually more bullet in the case and the case capacity is decreased due to the longer bullet. This will increase pressure for a given load. the berrys RS should have a rounder and more abrupt ongive (evidence supported by the bullet hanging up sooner) and be a shorted bullet. The Berrys FP is more like a truncated cone bullet and the col should run similar to the xtp bullet as far as cycling powder charge may be different.
And to further complicate things I noticed you posted that at 1.130 you start to have feeding problems and if you set up to seat the bullets at 1.127 you only have .003 variance before you have problems. For me in that caliper .003 variance is acceptable and often occurs (loading progressive). I fear that you are not leaving enough room for error and small changes in the bullet and loading habits will cause you to have rounds to use in immediate action drills to clear a jam. Now that you have an idea of what the max col is you can go from there. I would suggest to try a col of 1.120 with a dummy just because i like round numbers. Then you have .010 variance before they are too long. And just so you know try a col of 1.115 with a dummy round. If it works you at least have a functional col variance of .015 to play with. If all is well I would seat at a col of 1.125. The only problem is that with the FP bullet you may be runnung out of bearing surface on the bullet for the case mouth. Since you are shorting the col then I have to suggest that you decrease the powder charge. To give you some background most of the handgun rounds that I load are for putting holes in paper and most of my practice is point shooting so minute of center mass accuracy is fine with me. One thing that is important to me though is reliability. It is my opinion that the first step in a reliable load is a good col for a given bullet followed by a good powder charge along with good reloading habits ie correctly seating primers. All of these things are critical but I start at the col first. I have no knowledge of you reloading background so I may have just wasted you time, but I am just trying to help.

 

[Branden967]

Not knocking the berrys guy but I sent him a pm a few weeks ago about their 30-30 bullets and I still have not gotten a reply. Me too.

I am courious as to how it gets hung up in the 1.130 col range. I have went all the way up to 1.135 with the 180 grainers. My guess is that the 150s may be shorter and have a blunter nose, do you have the RS or the FP bullets? I Got the 155's FP's

Does it partially chamber then stop or does it make it that far. When I try to chamber a round it makes jams on barrel slide ramp parel to the slied. It does that on anything over 1.130. That weapon is a HK USP Compact. The glock is a OAL is a tad bit longer, but I want to make them fire reliably in both.

I would not pull them just yet, but how many do you have loaded up. I loaded up 50 total. Im not going to pull them yet. Hopefully I hear back from the folks at Berrys first. After thinking about the 5.5 grains it seems like that is going to be a little hot for my liking.

If six is the max charge and the col that is listed for that charge is either shorter or the same length and the bullet is of a similar profile you might still be ok, but is that for lead or jacketed and what weight bullet? I have it listed as 6.0 as the max for a lead jacketed bullet.

If you have the componets just load some additional at the 5.0 or 5.1 grain charge and see what happens. You read my mind. Im going to put the 5.5's on hold and start make up some 5.1's.

I checked the hodgon/winchester powder site and it only shows the xtp for the 155grain bullets. My expierence with the xtps is that their ongive is streatched more therefore can have a longer col. This means that at the given col there is actually more bullet in the case and the case capacity is decreased due to the longer bullet. This will increase pressure for a given load. the berrys RS should have a rounder and more abrupt ongive (evidence supported by the bullet hanging up sooner) and be a shorted bullet. The Berrys FP is more like a truncated cone bullet and the col should run similar to the xtp bullet as far as cycling powder charge may be different.
And to further complicate things I noticed you posted that at 1.130 you start to have feeding problems and if you set up to seat the bullets at 1.127 you only have .003 variance before you have problems. For me in that caliper .003 variance is acceptable and often occurs (loading progressive). I fear that you are not leaving enough room for error and small changes in the bullet and loading habits will cause you to have rounds to use in immediate action drills to clear a jam. Now that you have an idea of what the max col is you can go from there. I would suggest to try a col of 1.120 with a dummy just because i like round numbers. I agree with you 100% I am loading on Hornady's LNL and I set the seating die at 1.125 with the varince being the high end at 1.128 max. Usally they have been averaging 1.127, I might just set it a bit lower.


Then you have .010 variance before they are too long. And just so you know try a col of 1.115 with a dummy round. If it works you at least have a functional col variance of .015 to play with. If all is well I would seat at a col of 1.125. The only problem is that with the FP bullet you may be runnung out of bearing surface on the bullet for the case mouth. Since you are shorting the col then I have to suggest that you decrease the powder charge. To give you some background most of the handgun rounds that I load are for putting holes in paper and most of my practice is point shooting so minute of center mass accuracy is fine with me. Me too.

One thing that is important to me though is reliability. It is my opinion that the first step in a reliable load is a good col for a given bullet followed by a good powder charge along with good reloading habits ie correctly seating primers. All of these things are critical but I start at the col first. I have no knowledge of you reloading background so I may have just wasted you time, but I am just trying to help. I appricate all your help. I always welcome any advise.

 

[Branden967]

Well I herd back from Berrys, it was just easier to email them directly. They sent me a page out of Layman's book. See attached. It sounds like 5.0 grains or 5.1 grains of the Win231 is going the best starting load.

I think Im going to whip up a batch and shoot the things. I'll let you know how it goes.