best 380 defense load?

B

Balrog

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Nov 28, 2008
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Just wanted to see what people are thinking about new 380 ACP defensive loads these days. When carrying 380, I have generally always felt that they won't reliably expand, and I wanted deep penetration, so I just went with hardball. Some of the new loads have me questioning that. Some seem to work well based on gel tests, and some surprisingly not well. The Federal HST 99g doesn't do so well, but the Hornady FTX 90g critical defense does... It gets just a bit over 12" penetration and expands to around 0.45". Thats not too bad.

What are your thoughts?
 
I will be purchasing the Hornady FTX 90g's and seeing how the are. Sounds promising. Thanks!
 
LCP class: Hornady Critical Defense, Precisionone XTP (or any suitable loading of the XTP)
G42 class: Speer Gold Dot
 
I've settled on the Hornady 90gr XTP as my defensive round of choice in 380ACP. It's a mild expanding hollow point, which out of the Ruger LCP will probably fail to expand anyway. I just prefer it over FMJ, since it is usually loaded hotter and to a better consistency than target ammo, and at least has the potential to expand if the conditions are right.
 
For what it's worth
All depends on the gun and the actual placement of the shot.

Maybe there is dome new super 380 out there now.
YMMV


shootingthebull.net

Final Results of the .380 ACP Ammo Quest

In July of 2013, I picked up a little .380 pocket pistol (specifically a Taurus PT738 TCP), and I started researching what would be the most appropriate ammo to use with it. Turns out that pretty m…
shootingthebull.net
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
I run Critical Defense in my Pico. Cycles well, which I place greater value on than expansion.
Click to expand...
How's the trigger on your Pico? Buddy has one; it takes two men and a boy to pull the trigger.
It shot straight, but now has a dead trigger spring...any suggestions on a replacement?
thanks
Moon
 
From looking at gel tests a lot over the weekend, it seems like there is a lot of inconsistency of results, even of the same exact ammo, from one tester to another.
 
halfmoonclip said:
How's the trigger on your Pico? Buddy has one; it takes two men and a boy to pull the trigger.
It shot straight, but now has a dead trigger spring...any suggestions on a replacement?
thanks
Moon
Click to expand...
The pull isn't objectionable, but the reset takes some getting used to. Mine is a V2.0, I think they improved the triger bit over the earlier ones.
As your buddy probably knows, parts are drying up fast since their discontinuation. His only likely recourse is fab his own or a have a machinist/ gunsmith do it for him.
I really like mine, it has been 100% reliable so far. Id like to get another for practice and keep the first low mileage for carry.

If your bud doesn't feel comfortable with a homemade spring, let me know and Ill take it off his hands.
 
I was carrying Hornady XTP, but the following links have made me rethink that decision. In actual FBI-spec calibrated organic gel, .380 JHPs, if they expand, don't penetrate reliably. I carry SIG Elite 100gr FMJ, because they're flat nose and very high quality.

www.police1.com

Ballistic gelatin comparisons: Part III

There's a clear difference between synthetic and organic gelatin that law enforcement needs to understand
www.police1.com www.police1.com

 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
If your bud doesn't feel comfortable with a homemade spring, let me know and Ill take it off his hands.
Click to expand...
Thanks, NIGHTLORD. I'll pass that along. His son is getting married, and he's up to his ass in alligators at the moment. I'm heartened to hear the later Pico triggers got better.
Moon
 
The 12" Penetration spec. is the FBI's answer to the Lateral Thoracic Cavity shot (upper arm + >1/2 chest, with 3 clothing layers).

Even a large torso is <10" front to back, with 1 clothing layer.

So, for a self-defense round, 10" penetration through heavy clothing, with reliable expansion, is fine.

Like Winchester's 95 gr. PDX1 load, from a 3.5" barrel.

This heavy clothing test is from a sub 3" barrel, expanded reliably, and would still hit vitals:


​

(Note: a Ka-Bar combat fighting knife - has a 7" blade.)
 
Last edited:
Due to arthritis in my hands I recently switched from 9mm with Federal HST 124gr JHP to 380 ACP with Underwood Extreme Defender (fluid transfer monolithic all copper) 68 grain. Why this 380 ammo?

I selected the ammo after many hours of research. I found that the due too the ballistics of 380 JHP expansion was a challenge. Expansion depends upon velocity, which in turn depends on the power of the ammo. Expansion is unpredictable in short barrels like those of many modern 380 pistols. My Ruger Security 380 Lite Rack has a 3.42 inc barrel. Close enough to 3” that I felt insecure with JHP. For years folks have recommended using FMJ in 380 to get deeper penetration in lieu of expansion. The 380 fluid transfer bullet is designed to provide very good penetration because the 68gr bullet provides greater velocity than mist JHP bullet weights. Fluid transfer bullets are now proven to provide equal or greater wound cavities than JHP in 380, and with penetration and wound cavity being critical factors of lethality I settled on the Extreme Defender ammo.


With patience on YouTube one can review many test of 380 ammo. Many will confirm what I have written above. Ammo is always a personal choice, but it ought to be made based upon science not myth. I am happy with my choice.
 
Gun-Reck said:
The 12" Penetration spec. is the FBI's answer to the Lateral Thoracic Cavity shot (upper arm + >1/2 chest, with 3 clothing layers).

Even a large torso is <10" front to back, with 1 clothing layer.

So, for a self-defense round, 10" penetration through heavy clothing, with reliable expansion, is fine.

Like Winchester's 95 gr. PDX1 load, from a 3.5" barrel.

This heavy clothing test is from a sub 3" barrel, expanded reliably, and would still hit vitals:


​

(Note: a Ka-Bar combat fighting knife - has a 7" blade.)
Click to expand...

Arms and hands are frequently hit, and can add several inches of penetration on a frontal shot, depending on the angle of the bullet's path through the arm.

A bullet has to possess enough penetration potential to not only reach vitals, but to pass through them to damage them.
 
Years back I was admonished for carrying cast loads in my various 380s. "Hollowpoints are the way to go, you're crazy for carrying lead bullets" etc. etc. A few years pass and Buffalo Bore makes hardcast hot .380 ammo and it's amazing............hmmmmm

I actually may load up some Lee 102gr. RN lead ammo today.
 
Shawn Dodson said:
Arms and hands are frequently hit, and can add several inches of penetration on a frontal shot, depending on the angle of the bullet's path through the arm.

A bullet has to possess enough penetration potential to not only reach vitals, but to pass through them to damage them.
Click to expand...
Lucky Gunner has an interesting article up on their site about rifle vs. pistol terminal ballistics, and this (not caliber-specific) passage gets to the heart of the matter (emphasis added):

"With pistols, we can only count on the permanent cavity. An expanding hollow-point will create a wider permanent cavity, but ballistics experts debate whether even that has any effect on the outcome of most cases. What they do all agree on is that shot placement and penetration are, by far, more important than any other considerations."

I think Buffalo Bore, in one of their .380 hardcast product descriptions, says it best:

"If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON'T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family."

With my .380s, I will take penetration (even over-penetration) over inconsistent expansion and under-penetration all day long.
 
From looking at gel tests a lot over the weekend, it seems like there is a lot of inconsistency of results, even of the same exact ammo, from one tester to another. I agree penetration and shot placement are the most important factors. I am probably just gonna stick with hardball... The XTP is worth considering, it seems to get good penetration by most testers but minimal or no expansion. But FMJ may feed more reliably. Not sure the risk is worth the benefit of a hollowpoint in 380.
 
I think it was HST that had a 99grn Jhp bullet. I picked up a box or two and that is what I have been carrying. I carry a LCP most days.
WB
 
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