best 380 defense load?

[Gun-Reck]

Arms and hands are frequently hit, and can add several inches of penetration on a frontal shot, depending on the angle of the bullet's path through the arm.

A bullet has to possess enough penetration potential to not only reach vitals, but to pass through them to damage them.

Well, for Self and Home defense, shooting until the threat is stopped is a given.

That takes into account precise fire, including less than optimum hits.

And, again, a Ka-Bar combat fighting knife has a 7" blade.

For a reason.

 

[ms6852]

Only time I carry a .380 is when I'm doing my walks in the evening. I am not a fan of hollow points and I know what I say next will ruffle feathers but know that it is only my opinion, here goes. I believe that bullet expansion is over rated especially when it comes to smaller caliber rounds. When I do carry my .380 I use a 100 grain bullet. Since I do not reload this round as it is not my edc I buy the Sig Sauer brand. I am more interested in penetration than bullet expansion where there is a better chance of reaching vital organs.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

And, again, a Ka-Bar combat fighting knife has a 7" blade.

For a reason.

Because nobody has ever needed to thrust a knife blade through an arm to reach vitals in the torso.

 

[Pistolay]

The XTP is worth considering, it seems to get good penetration by most testers but minimal or no expansion.

If you look at the BrassFetcher link I posted earlier, they show the Hornady XTP getting 15" through heavy denim with almost no expansion and 10" through bare gelatin with decent expansion. This test was with a 2.8" barrel and FBI-spec 10% organic gel. The denim result was probably because the bullet was getting plugged. In any event, the bottom line is that in order to get adequate penetration, you're betting that the bullet won't expand the way it's designed to. I don't like that bet, which is why I stopped carrying the Hornady.

 

[EMC45]

When I did carry cast handloads they were 120gr. Lee TC sized to .356. They were big, heavy and not super fast, but shot great out of my P3AT.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Because nobody has ever needed to thrust a knife blade through an arm to reach vitals in the torso.

I'll just leave this right here.

​

 

[SeanSw]

How's the trigger on your Pico? Buddy has one; it takes two men and a boy to pull the trigger.
It shot straight, but now has a dead trigger spring...any suggestions on a replacement?
thanks
Moon

Another Pico owner chiming in. Trigger is heavy and hits a wall right before dropping the hammer. Long reset. I can't grip it well enough to shoot any faster than it can reasonably be aimed and I have med/small hands. I am not a particularly strong man but manage just fine. It's the cadence and stacking that takes practice. It shoots well but I ran out of fiocchi xtp before they were proven reliable so it's Speer lawman fmj for now.

They are a very small DAO hammer fired pistol. The physics are very limiting to that sort of trigger type in such a small package so I don't really have any complaints.

 

[psyopspec]

Precision One XTP. See the LuckyGunner and ShootingtheBull410 tests and judge for yourself.

 

[EMC45]

As far as over penetration is concerned, I firmly believe in knowing your target and what’s beyond it. It’s not a perfect world I know…

 

[Buckeye63]

I use Underwood XTPs and Winchester White box 95gr FNFMJ

 

[murf]

Expansion is not necessary. A 95 or 100 grain round nose flat point load (non +p) is my recommendation. Although, I have a 68 grain xd load in my lcpII (kicks less and still penetrates).

luck,

murf

 

[W.E.G.]

reliability > shot placement > bullet construction

 

[WYO]

I’ll take barrier blind penetration over expansion any day when carrying a .380 for the reasons stated by Shawn Dodson. I don’t have any dead pigs handy, but I’d be willing to bet that Underwood’s standard pressure 68 grain XD round would perform better than the ammo used in the pig video linked above. As a bonus, it won’t overpenetrate if it does not hit a barrier.

Apologies to people who have seen these before.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ufwWiSTchWI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l2C5dt-bEMg
I got into a 4th jug in another identical test with a dimple on the 5th.

 

[Tallball]

My Pico trigger is stiff, too.

Like a few others, on the rare occasions I carry a 380, it's loaded with spicy FMJ.

Hint for cooler temperatures: I can draw my Pico or LCPII from the breast pocket of a jacket or coat much faster than pulling a larger handgun out from under my coat.

 

[Agsalaska]

XTPs

 

[NMexJim]

If you stated what gun you're using, I missed it. HSTs are very good but are a strong recoil for sub-compacts like LCP or P380. A handful so to speak. If you have something like a P238, then recoil will be better. I went to Critical Defense in my sub-compact because the recoil is milder and they feed very well, very reliably. I tested out quite a few manufacturers before settling on them. I think better than FMJ. If the recoil wasn't so harsh with the HST, I'd carry them. I can't lay hands on Precision One locally or that might be a choice.

 

[NMexJim]

So, this post got me thinking. I went ahead and ordered a box of Precision One just to try. I've tried about everything else. They have two offerings in .380 - a standard loading at 925 fps and a +P loading at 975 fps. All use Hornady XTP bullets.

My experience with sub-compacts in .380 is that up to 950 is pretty manageable and quick/easy to get back on target. 950fps and up is warm with a surprising amount of additional recoil. Too, with subs, you get limited real estate for feed ramps and the combination of recoil and hollowpoints can start to give you feed issues.

Invest in a large selection and find what works in your pistol.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Energy transfer into the intended target.

Winchester 95 gr. PDX1/3.25" barrel

​

0.62" of expansion, and roughly 10" of penetration, the same depth as a large human torso.

What would a 9mm do differently, given a frontal, SD encounter, besides exit with the excess energy?

 

[NMexJim]

Not a thing wrong w/ PDX1. I’ve used them w/o issue in my 9mms.

I just had some feed problems which P380 ate know for.

 

[Balrog]

Energy transfer into the intended target.

Winchester 95 gr. PDX1/3.25" barrel

​

0.62" of expansion, and roughly 10" of penetration, the same depth as a large human torso.

What would a 9mm do differently, given a frontal, SD encounter, besides exit with the excess energy?

Under the ideal parameters you list, probably nothing. But what if it was not a frontal shot, and what if there was a big fat shoulder between you and the center of the target's chest?

 

[NMexJim]

Under the ideal parameters you list, probably nothing. But what if it was not a frontal shot, and what if there was a big fat shoulder between you and the center of the target's chest?

Ammo is cheap. Shoot until it’s over.

 

[Agsalaska]

Energy transfer into the intended target.

Winchester 95 gr. PDX1/3.25" barrel

​

0.62" of expansion, and roughly 10" of penetration, the same depth as a large human torso.

What would a 9mm do differently, given a frontal, SD encounter, besides exit with the excess energy?

The depth of penetration in ballistics gel is NOT supposed to mirror the depth of penetration in a human body. That is one of the biggest mistakes people make when interpreting this data.

 

[CDW4ME]

Energy transfer into the intended target.

Winchester 95 gr. PDX1/3.25" barrel

​

0.62" of expansion, and roughly 10" of penetration, the same depth as a large human torso.

What would a 9mm do differently, given a frontal, SD encounter, besides exit with the excess energy?

At least 12'' penetration desired in case a forearm is blocking the chest, like someone attacking with a knife or holding a gun.

Penetration & expansion alone in gel may not reflect ASAP incapacitation potential; in the same Lucky Gunner testing I can point out a 357 Mag 125 SJHP and 38 special 158 LSWCHP that expand and penetrate near identical. Most people (myself included) would opine the 357 Mag has better ASAP potential versus the 38 special despite near identical performance in gel.

You might refer to manufacture data on the 380:
https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx
The 380 Ranger expands but only 7.8'' of penetration, according to the maker.
Several 9mm bullets penetrate at least 12'' in the same manufacturer testing.

 

[Gun-Reck]

At least 12'' penetration desired in case a forearm is blocking the chest, like someone attacking with a knife or holding a gun.

Penetration & expansion alone in gel may not reflect ASAP incapacitation potential; in the same Lucky Gunner testing I can point out a 357 Mag 125 SJHP and 38 special 158 LSWCHP that expand and penetrate near identical. Most people (myself included) would opine the 357 Mag has better ASAP potential versus the 38 special despite near identical performance in gel.

You might refer to manufacture data on the 380:
https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx
The 380 Ranger expands but only 7.8'' of penetration, according to the maker.
Several 9mm bullets penetrate at least 12'' in the same manufacturer testing.

That manufacture spec sheet contains the Ranger-T Series, not the PDX1 round.

​

Have shot these into all kinds of medium from a 3.5" barrel, and they penetrate in excess of 10 inches, expand well, and tear things up.

For the choice of .380 ACP from that barrel length, it is outstanding.

For a frontal torso presentation in a Self Defense shooting, a 9mm would just carry its extra energy out the back, and probably not expand as much.

Shoot what you have confidence in.

This is mine.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Under the ideal parameters you list, probably nothing. But what if it was not a frontal shot, and what if there was a big fat shoulder between you and the center of the target's chest?

Along with the head, kidneys/spleen, and pelvis.

This is a Self Defense round, not a service pistol.

It just has to stop the immediate threat, and these PDX1 rounds are outstanding .380 ACP performers.