Best Action for HD?

[Caliban]

I've seen it discussed in places before, but couldn't find a comprehensive discussion- for an autoloader used primarily for home defense and target shooting, what type of action would you pick, and how would you store it so that it's ready when you need it? Here's my take:

SAO: Seems like most people carry 'em cocked and locked, but what if you were leaving it in your bedside table, maybe untouched for weeks at a time? Would you still leave it cocked and locked with a round in the chamber? Is it possible for the spring to wear out? Concerns with having to cock it before being able to fire if you leave the hammer down? Concerns with AD?

SFA: Basically always cocked, depending on brand- would you leave a round in the chamber, it would you plan to rack one if you need it? Can the spring wear out if it's one that is heavily pre-cocked and it's left that way for a while?

DAO or DA/SA: Eliminates the need for cocking before the first shot; seems like it might be a better choice? Would you store it with a round in the chamber?


I know a cop who keeps his glock in his bedside table, in a drawer, loaded and with a round in the chamber. I find it kind of frightening because he has a toddler, and the glock has no safety besides the trigger.

 

[Chipperman]

I know a cop who keeps his glock in his bedside table, in a drawer, loaded and with a round in the chamber.

That's a tragedy waiting to happen, regardless of the action type. That gun should be locked up when not under his control.

Anyway, IMO the action type is much less important than extensive training with the chosen weapon. Make your decision based on what you are most comfortable with and works best in YOUR hands.

A spring is not going to wear out by being in compression. Repeated cycling is what will wear it out. You could put a 1911 cocked and locked in a safe for 100 years, pull it out and it will fire just fine.

 

[kurtiss]

I am a fan of the Glock kept next to bed, with a round in the chamber, in one of those safes that you can open with your fingers in the dark. I used to just keep a 12 Gauge next to the bed, and my carry Glock on the bedside table. But, I now have a little one, so the shotgun is unloaded, and the Glock goes in the safe, loaded.

 

[Drgong]

Also depends if you live with anyone.

I am a singleton so if I have my revolver loaded, its loaded up, if it is my BHP, it is condition 3.

 

[OregonJohnny]

I keep a Springfield XD-40 subcompact on my nightstand with a loaded mag but no round chambered. Basically, with a dog who sleeps right outside my bedroom door, and my window 2 stories off the ground with no roof or ladder access, I am confident I'll be aware of a possible intruder and have enough time to rack the slide and chamber a round.

Also, the thought of reaching in the dark for a handgun with a round chambered, no external safety, and a relatively light trigger pull while I'm panicked or groggy or half asleep doesn't suit my personal taste. To each their own. But for me, it's loaded but not chambered.

 

[CWL]

Look, it depends on your specific situation.

Any gun will perform reliably as long as you train with it and keep the 4 Rules always in mind.

Just get the one you feel comfortable about handling, feel safe in storing, and can afford to shoot often with.

Everything else relies on you, not the gun.

 

[D-Man]

You should have no concerns with a gun at rest wearing out springs, regardless of the action type.

As mentioned, you need to determine what action type you are most familiar with, and go with that platform and train with it. For example, in my case, I am beginning to see that I prefer the SAO style gun w/ safety, and both my HD guns have that (1911 & M&P45).

 

[RustyShackelford]

for home protection or security go with a DA only...

IMO:
I'd buy a new modern DA only semi auto pistol like the SIG Sauer DAK model P-229/P-220/P-226 with the R type frame or maybe a HK LEM P-2000 or 2000sk pistol.
A smooth DA only trigger would be best to use under the stress or caos of a critical incident. That is why so many major law enforcement agencies like ICE, US Border Patrol, NCIS, etc use them.
A well made DA only pistol reduces the chance of an accident or a false claim that you fired by "accident". Noted gun writer/sworn LEO/legal expert Massad F Ayoob writes often about how DA only pistols and revolvers are best for security/LE/concealed carry use.
Rusty S

 

[Caliban]

thank you for the opinions and experiences. good to know that springs don't wear out from staying compressed over time. for those who say to use whatever you're most familiar with, i'm familiar with zero- i would love to train with lots of different guns and decide which i'm most comfortable with, but i live in manhattan and don't really have a great way to do that. once my license application goes through, i am allowed one and only one pistol; it seems i can't really make a horrible mistake by picking the "wrong" type of action, but this isn't making the decision any easier. whatever i get i'm going to shoot at the range as often as i can, so i'm back to trying to decide which gun "sounds" like it would be best for me. i think i may be a future member of the sig club, so i'll have to see if i can find a place to dry fire the dak trigger.

 

[Marshall]

I use my XD-40 for nightstand use a lot. It swaps with a Model 13 .357 magnum revolver from time to time. A round is always chambered and ready to shoot, that's half the beauty of that action.

 

[M1911]

First, there is no "best." There are plenty of choices for action types for a home defense handgun and most all of them are more than acceptable.

SAO: Seems like most people carry 'em cocked and locked, but what if you were leaving it in your bedside table, maybe untouched for weeks at a time? Would you still leave it cocked and locked with a round in the chamber? Is it possible for the spring to wear out? Concerns with having to cock it before being able to fire if you leave the hammer down? Concerns with AD?

Yes, my carry/home defense gun is cocked and locked, with a round in the chamber. It has been cocked and locked for years, and is only uncocked when I clean it, or take it to the range to shoot it.

Springs don't wear out by being under compression. They wear out by being cycled (compressed and relaxed repeatedly). Do you jack up your car every night to uncompress the springs on your car? You don't? And your car's springs haven't failed yet? Didn't think so. So why are you worried about your gun's springs?

I don't recommend condition 2 (loaded chamber, hammer down). It takes longer to cock than to lower the safety, and there is a greater chance of an AD while lowering the hammer than there is by simply putting it on safe. Condition 2 may be a solution but I've never been able to figure out what problem it is trying to solve.

SFA: Basically always cocked, depending on brand- would you leave a round in the chamber, it would you plan to rack one if you need it? Can the spring wear out if it's one that is heavily pre-cocked and it's left that way for a while?

Glocks are only fully cocked when you pull the trigger to the rear.

If you need a gun, you need it real bad and you need it right now. Why do you want to make it take longer to put it into readiness by leaving the chamber empty?

Once again, springs don't wear out being being compressed. If I was using one of my Glocks for home defense, I'd keep it chamber loaded.

DAO or DA/SA: Eliminates the need for cocking before the first shot; seems like it might be a better choice? Would you store it with a round in the chamber?

Have you actually fired one? DA/SA requires you to learn two types of trigger pulls -- long and hard versus short and light -- and manage the transition between the two. I can teach a new shooter how to properly manipulate the safety on a 1911 far faster than I can teach them how to get off two fast, accurate shots from a DA/SA. Same is true for the long, hard trigger pull of a true DAO (not a striker-fired gun like a Glock).

But if DAO or DA/SA is what you like, I'd keep it chamber full.

I know a cop who keeps his glock in his bedside table, in a drawer, loaded and with a round in the chamber. I find it kind of frightening because he has a toddler, and the glock has no safety besides the trigger.

The fact that the Glock has no manual safety is not the issue, even though a gun with a manual safety might add some small measure of safety. The problem is that the gun is being kept where a child can access it. The problem is not that there is some sort of inherent danger in the action type of the gun in question.

The solution to this problem is a quick access lock box. There are many varieties available. I use one with a simplex lock.

It seems to me that you are mistakenly focusing on the action type as a solution to a storage problem. No action type will solve the problem of unsafe storage.

 

[Lonestar49]

Night home gun, DA/SA chambered

...

For night time HD, bedside gun, and lots of range practice, I use a Sig P229R CT (crimson laser grips) 9mm with 135gr JHP's and keep one chambered, rdy, for either a DA pull or SA pull, depending on time element.

With both night sights and the *laser grips, it offers the ability to light up any BG/s, *ON, or *Off, at will, that fast, which offers the best, both eyes open for greatest SA along with accuracy IMHO.

Remember, the "best safety" is your head-training i.e.trigger finger off the trigger until target is verified, in your sights, and you're gonna shoot COM.



Ls

 

[Caliban]

Springs don't wear out by being under compression. They wear out by being cycled (compressed and relaxed repeatedly). Do you jack up your car every night to uncompress the springs on your car? You don't? And your car's springs haven't failed yet? Didn't think so. So why are you worried about your gun's springs?

don't have a car. see the part about me living in manhattan. i'm a city kid, which is why i have to ask how springs work.

Have you actually fired one?

no, again that's why i'm asking. the only gun i've ever fired was a glock.

It seems to me that you are mistakenly focusing on the action type as a solution to a storage problem. No action type will solve the problem of unsafe storage.

not really- whatever i get will be locked up because that's nyc law, it was more a question of what people like to reach for in a home defense situation. i know there's no "correct" answer but i'm still curious to hear what people are comfortable reaching for and why, even if the answer is most likely to be whatever they've trained the most with.

i was going to ask if it was a big hassle getting used to two different trigger pulls on one gun. do people really have significant trouble learning it?

 

[BlindJustice]

The action the USER is most comfortable with in a
HD/SD situation.

I am single, and have no problem leaving my 1911 Cocked
& Locked in the bedside drawer. I also keep a CZ 75B in DA
mode and a round in the chamber. or if it's one of my S&W
DA revolvers, they're loaded unless I'm cleaning them.

R-

 

[M1911]

i was going to ask if it was a big hassle getting used to two different trigger pulls on one gun. do people really have significant trouble learning it?

Yes, and so will you, because it isn't easy. It is far harder to make fast accurate shots using a gun that has a long hard trigger, versus one with a short light trigger.

Guess why most police departments are using Glocks now? Cheap, reliable, and easy to train.

 

[JaxNovice]

I keep a DA/SA P220 with a round chambered on my nightstand at night. When I wake up I put the gun into my safe. I actually have to pass by my safe to take a whizz and brush my fangs so it has become fairly routine.

 

[JaxNovice]

Yes, and so will you, because it isn't easy. It is far harder to make fast accurate shots using a gun that has a long hard trigger, versus one with a short light trigger.

I felt this same way about every DA/SA gun I ever owned. That is until I received my SP2022 from topgunsupply.com. The DA on that gun is beyond words. So smooth and light.

 

[M1911]

SP2022

I've never fired one of those. I've owned a number of DA/SA handguns, including a couple Sig P239s, a P226, two HK USPc, and a CZ-75B. I've also fired a S&W 3rd Generation 3913. All of them had long, hard double-action triggers. The HKs were perhaps the worst that I've tried.

I'm not saying that you can't learn to use a DA/SA trigger pull. You can. But it takes a fair bit of practice and training.

 

[Caliban]

so let's say you have a 1911 for hd that you keep cocked and locked. you'd have to decock it every time it went to the range. is this a pain? have people here actually had ADs while decocking 1911s? wouldn't something fancy like a six 226 x-five (sao) have a firing pin safety that would prevent AD while lowering the hammer? again, please forgive the newbie questions.

i know it's stupid and asking to be flamed, but i think the glocks are ugly as sin. i could maybe live with an m&p though. but for someone who lacks firearm training outside of the nra first steps pistol course, i kind of like the idea of being able to look at my gun and instantly see whether the hammer is cocked or not.

 

[MS .45]

I keep my Glock 17 on the nightstand, round chambered at night. In the morning it goes in the safe.

 

[SuperNaut]

but i live in manhattan

How difficult is it to get a handgun permit in Manhattan?

 

[Caliban]

How difficult is it to get a handgun permit in Manhattan?

it's a pain in the neck. the application costs ~$450 to submit, you have to dig up all kinds of paperwork and get things signed and notarized, and once you submit your documents it's 2-3 months before you get an "interview" and then another 2-3 months for approval/disapproval. once you get the approval you get a "purchase authorization" which gives you 30 days to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer- wait too long and it expires. once you buy your handgun, you take it and the receipt back to the police for "inspection" and so they can put the serial number of your gun on your license. you're only allowed one handgun, and you can't ccw in the city unless you are an armed security guard or very, very rich/famous (people like robert deniro and donald trump can carry in the city, but joe average is out of luck- i've heard of bank managers who literally transport bags of cash getting denied carry permits for not being able to demonstrate "sufficient need").

it's not a very gun-friendly place, but it's better than dc!

 

[SuperNaut]

Yikes! Good Luck!

 

[D-Man]

so let's say you have a 1911 for hd that you keep cocked and locked. you'd have to decock it every time it went to the range. is this a pain? have people here actually had ADs while decocking 1911s?

The safest thing to do would be to take the 1911, drop the magazine, disable the safety, and then rack the slide to remove the chambered bullet.

That's how I'd do it, as I'm not gonna even try lowering the hammer on it.

 

[SuperNaut]

so let's say you have a 1911 for hd that you keep cocked and locked. you'd have to decock it every time it went to the range. is this a pain? have people here actually had ADs while decocking 1911s?

Depends on your process. If you:

1. Drop the mag and set it aside.

2. Rack the slide and set the ejected round aside.

3. Visually verify that chamber is empty.

4. Lower hammer (or not)

You could even stop at step 2 if you rack and lock slide back.

ETA: X-post w/D-man