Best Action for HD?

[woodfiend]

I prefer DA/SA like the Sig Sauer or SFA like the Glock. If it needs to be shot, IT NEEDS TO BE SHOT. I would only just put the DA/SA decocked.

 

[Caliban]

Yikes! Good Luck!

thanks. i'm a little worried about the interview- apparently once you get the "official notice" in the mail you have but five days to contact them and set it up. this is slightly problematic since i'm often out of town monday through friday on business. could be cutting it close.

The safest thing to do would be to take the 1911, drop the magazine, disable the safety, and then rack the slide to remove the chambered bullet.

That's how I'd do it, as I'm not gonna even try lowering the hammer on it.

that makes a lot of sense. now that i think about it, when the guy handed me his glock, he dropped the mag and racked the slide five times just to be sure. good training. i guess you have the same issue of de-chambering a round no matter what the action is.

 

[Orange_Magnum]

Hi there. Single action with cocked hammer and safety on is the way to go. I've tried a DAO-only semi that was so difficult to pull the trigger on that I could barely not do it, and I'm a fullgrown man. Anyway. Have you thought about a repeter rifle in .357 magnum? 13 rounds in the pipe isn't bad and a rifle yields higher velocity and lower noise. My own HD weapon is a 8" revolver with .38 Special +p with two loaded speed loaders.

 

[Treo]

I have CZ75B that I carry in DA mode I guess I never got the memo about how hard it is to transition from DA to SA 'cause I never had a problem W/ it.

 

[M1911]

so let's say you have a 1911 for hd that you keep cocked and locked. you'd have to decock it every time it went to the range. is this a pain? have people here actually had ADs while decocking 1911s? wouldn't something fancy like a six 226 x-five (sao) have a firing pin safety that would prevent AD while lowering the hammer? again, please forgive the newbie questions

When I take my home defense 1911 to the range I simply put it in my holster I am always carrying something when I go to the range, but I suspect that might not be an option for you. If I was carrying something else, and decided to take my home defense 1911 to the range, I would simply unload it and place it in a case. I don't see any reason to carry a loaded gun in a case. It is either in a holster on my body or unloaded and cased. YMMV.

The unloading procedure for a 1911 is pretty much the same as it is for any semi-automatic handgun, with no extra risks involved. Point in a safe direction, finger off the trigger. Remove the magazine. Lower the safety. Cycle slide to eject round in the chamber. Lock the slide open. Visually and manually check that the chamber and magazine well are empty. Then close slide and drop the hammer. No pain involved and no need to manually decock the hammer. Not ever.

I own 7 1911s. I'm an NRA certified firearms instructor, NRA certified range safety officer, IDPA range safety officer. I've taken about 200 hours of training (LFI, Sigarms Academy, Cumberland Tactics, Smith & Wesson Academy, etc.). I've never had to manually decock a 1911 on a loaded chamber. There's no reason to do so.

I have 1911s with firing pin safeties (Colt Delta Elite and ParaOrdnance P14). I have seen no reason to decock either of those on a loaded chamber.

I have owned a Sig P226 DA/SA. DA/SA Sigs have a decocker that will lower the safety without allowing the hammer to hit the firing pin and without allowing the firing pin to move.

I strongly suggest that you find a way to shoot guns with different actions prior to buying one. These type of academic, online discussions will never replace the experience of actually shooting the gun in question.

You know there are folks who are afraid of the cocked hammer on 1911s, but are not afraid of Glocks. I just don't get it. Many negligent discharges occur while people are holstering guns -- they leave their trigger finger on the trigger. Consider what would happen if they were using a Glock and left their finger on the trigger while holstering -- the holster stops the finger, the gun keeps going, and thus they inadvertently pull the trigger. Now suppose the same thing happens with a 1911. If they remembered to put the safety on, then the holster stops their finger, the gun keeps going, and what happens? Nothing, because the safety is on.

I'm not saying that 1911s are for you or that 1911s are the "best" action. There are many fine guns and I would feel adequately armed with one of my Glocks, my CZ75, Sig P239, or HK USPc. What I am saying is that many people have an irrational fear of a cocked hammer.

 

[dmazur]

so let's say you have a 1911 for hd that you keep cocked and locked. you'd have to decock it every time it went to the range. is this a pain? have people here actually had ADs while decocking 1911s?

Well, I haven't. However, when I started carrying a 1911 in Condition 1, I practiced extensively with dummy rounds, locking the slide back and "rolling" the round into my palm, with the slide held sideways and pointed in an imaginary downrange direction.

This is what you have to do at IDPA matches to "show clear", and (IMO) it is a good idea for anybody who handles a 1911.

If you do this correctly, your fingers are nowhere near the trigger, you have complete control of the slide, and the worst that happens is the slide slips and you have to get a better grasp on it and do it again. Since I've been practicing, I don't have slide slip problems any more. (But I wouldn't want to try this maneuver after eating buttered toast. )

Following this, you insert the loose round back in the removed magazine to be tidy, and then it can be inserted in the pistol for Condition 3.

(By the way, the range I go to has no problem with CCW, but they prefer you to leave it holstered. Pistols brought to the range are treated as long guns, and are handled cased and unloaded until at the line. Unload with muzzle in safe direction, then case. Once cased and unloaded, they are considered safe. So...If I want to shoot a pistol at this particular range, I can assume having one cased, unloaded and handy is good enough, and have a loaded magazine in my pocket, or I can CCW and take another pistol to the range for practice.)

 

[riceboy72]

I'd have to say it honestly depends on what you're comfortable with and what your experience level is. There is nothing wrong with any of the actions you mention, but don't let us tell you what we'd do if it were us because each of us has our preferences, and those are dictated by our experience level and how well we shoot with each of them.

I know many seasoned shooters who do as well, if not better, with a DAO pistol than those who shoot SAO or DA/SA. You must be absolutely comfortable with the pistol you choose to defend your home and loved ones with; so much so that if you were to grab it in the dark or low light, you could manipulate any part of the pistol with confidence, including firing it and making it safe if the pistol requires you to do so after firing. The pistol with the most safeties is not going to help you if you can't get it to fire under stress. Conversely, the pistol that you don't feel safe with is not going to fire when you fumble with it trying to load it if it's kept empty. You have to choose what's best for you.

You seem to be uncomfortable with the idea of having it fully loaded, to include the round in the chamber. If you get some professional training with the pistol of your choice to build confidence in your abilities as well as the gun, and if you follow the safety rules of gun handling and never put your finger inside the triggerguard unless you intend to fire, then you should not have an accidental discharge. Also, safe storage of your pistol is part of being a responsible pistol owner, even if you live by yourself. That includes securing your pistol when you are not home so that it cannot be easily taken in the unfortunate event that you are burglarized.

 

[Caliban]

Semi autos loaded keep the mag springs under compression. That's not a good idea. If you're "cocked & locked" in most actions (DOA would be an exception), you have the striker springs compressed. Bad news for the same reasons compressing mag springs are bad news.

You want to store a loaded gun for self defense -- LOCKED up if it's "unattended." Get a double action revolver. No spring compression.

wait a minute- i was just told that keeping springs compressed was not the least bit problematic. why do you say it's bad news?

 

[M1911]

Semi autos loaded keep the mag springs under compression. That's not a good idea. If you're "cocked & locked" in most actions (DOA would be an exception), you have the striker springs compressed. Bad news for the same reasons compressing mag springs are bad news.

Baloney.

Once again, do you jack up your car every night when you come home to uncompress your springs? No? And yet your car's springs haven't failed, have they?

Properly designed springs don't wear out by being compressed. Metal fatigue occurs due to repeated compression/uncompression cycles. You will wear out your magazines springs far faster by loading and unloading the magazine than by simply leaving it loaded.

My aluminum framed Kimber Compact has been cocked and locked since I got it in January of 2002. The only time it is decocked is when I fire it at the range and when I clean it. The magazines have been loaded since January of 1998 when I bought my first Kimber Compact (steel frame). The only time I unload those magazines is when I'm firing them at the range and when I clean them. Both the gun and magazine work flawlessly.

People keep repeating this myth about springs being compressed causing them to fail. But they never provide any evidence to support that assertion, because there isn't any -- it isn't supported by material science.

 

[Lonestar49]

Practice, one way or another..

i was going to ask if it was a big hassle getting used to two different trigger pulls on one gun. do people really have significant trouble learning it?

...

*That's what snap caps are for, lots of DA pulls with a DA/SA gun, along with, the right gun to use at the range. I really stand by my Sigs, as their frame mounted decockers allow one to maintain a proper 2-hand grip while decocking after any shot, easily, and quick, while practicing full mag DA shots at the range to "learn what the DA pull feels like, with understanding and accuracy, so IF the time ever were to come that you had to make a quick, DA pull/shot, and then, if needed, a few quick SA follow-up shots.

*In regards to a SAO, locked and cocked, type gun, it's, again, a learned, safe, process to lower a cocked hammer simply by squeezing, hard on the hammer, with the support hand thumb and index finger while pointing the gun at a safe area while pulling the trigger and gently lowering the hammer..

*Again, it all becomes en-grained, safe-procedures, with practice both, at home using snap caps and at the range using live ammo..

One must crawl before one can walk, and leave the running for the few, if any, times you will actually have to do whatever it takes *by learned instinct" rather than by "forced thinking.."

Luck,



Ls

 

[Caliban]

That's what snap caps are for, lots of DA pulls with a DA/SA gun, along with, the right gun to use at the range. I really stand by my Sigs, as their frame mounted decockers allow one to maintain a proper 2-hand grip while decocking after any shot, easily, and quick, while practicing full mag DA shots at the range to "learn what the DA pull feels like, with understanding and accuracy, so IF the time ever were to come that you had to make a quick, DA pull/shot, and then, if needed, a few quick SA follow-up shots.

so, say you have something like a sig p226 da/sa. you put the mag in and rack the slide to chamber a round, doesn't that cock the hammer too? would you then have to use the decocker in order to experience a da trigger pull?

 

[M1911]

so, say you have something like a sig p226 da/sa. you put the mag in and rack the slide to chamber a round, doesn't that cock the hammer too? would you then have to use the decocker in order to experience a da trigger pull?

Yes, you would have to decock. Most DA/SA guns are designed to be carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.

The short answer is that the best action type for you is the one that you shoot the best. Only you can answer that, after you have had experience with each type.

All of the typical handgun actions (DA/SA, DAO, striker-fired, SA) can be handled safely. All of them can be mishandled as well. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[klane]

Great gun, I love mine and with the other stuff you got a good deal.

WOW wrong thread my appoligies!!

 

[senior]

triggers

Keep reading how D.A. is hard or gritty and therefore harder to get used to compared to S.A., yet my AR-24 has a D.A. thats as smoth as any u care to try, very easy and smooth to pull, with S.A. even lighter and it can be carried C&L or loaded, hammer at rest and safety on, just a flick of it and ready to fire!