Best AK-47 under $600?

[TheSigmaEnigma]

What is the best AK-47(7.62x39) that I can get for under $600? My only requirements are that it is hi capacity. I would appreciate any positive input.

Thanks,

Enigma

 

[Birdmang]

I would pick one from THIS THREAD

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=582048

Buy a WASR and a hammer and a case of ammo.

Use the hammer to fix the canted sight, if necessary, then shoot all the ammo.

Get it real dirty then don't clean it.

 

[TheSigmaEnigma]

Yeah, I know that I started that thread recently also. I changed my mind about the AK-74 though and now I'm thinking about just going with the 47. The key holing stuff pretty much changed my mind about the Tantals, and it looks like the ammo is going to dry out eventually too. I'm just seeing if there's any other options that I've overlooked.

Question: Is the AKMS better then the Wasr 10? Whats above a wasr for under $600?

 

[nalioth]

You will not find an AKMS for sale in the USA.

Be wary of labels that marketing departments use to polish the proverbial um, byproduct

The Saiga is going to be the best for the same reasons given in the other (and all the other) threads.

If you don't want a Saiga for whatever reason, the WASR will be the next best (by a long margin).

 

[Ignition Override]

You might have also read about the experience of "Sturmgewehr"?

He called Century after his Tantal constantly keyholed (100 yards) and they were well aware of the many over-sized "5.45" bores, long before he received his rifle.
He was one of the few customers (or only?), to have received a correct barrel/bore in exchange.

And Century's "world class" warranties begin when the gun is manufactured, which can be many months before you buy it in a retail store.
Somebody claimed that US consumer product warranty regulations should have prevented this policy.

 

[christcorp]

Without a doubt, a Saiga. They are 100% REAL russian AK's; built in the same exact plant as the Military AK-47's. They are only $350. They are sporterized to meet import restriction. "Unlike most Ak's you buy which are made of spare parts". But the Saiga can be put back to 100% AK "Looking" for about $150. So; for $500, you have the highest quality AK-47 on the market. But if you don't want to do any of the retrofitting, then definitely go out and buy any of the "Parts" rifles in the $400-$500 range.

 

[TheSigmaEnigma]

Well, I looked into the Saiga some more. I'm starting to warm up to it. The only thing that REALLY bothers me, is the fact that it wont accept standard hi capacity AK mags. Whats the point of even having an "AK" if it won't take all of the cool, fun magazines? I also looked into conversions, and there is absolutely no way that I'll be able to do it. I have some metal fabrication experience, but nothing like that. So, with that being said, whats my next best bet? Wasr? Polish AKMS?

 

[christcorp]

If you haven't already; there's a forum dedicated specifically to the Saiga's. Including what it takes to put them back to "Russian Mil-Specs". Here:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/

P.S. All required modifications can be done with a dremel. Hell, I have my .223/5.56 saiga modified to accept AR15/M16 magazines.

 

[JustinJ]

What did it cost to modify it to take ar mags? Who makes the parts? Any reliability issues?

 

[nalioth]

The only thing that REALLY bothers me, is the fact that it wont accept standard hi capacity AK mags

There's no such thing as a "standard hi capacity" magazine. That's a contradiction of terms (even though one term is a fiction).

What did it cost to modify it to take ar mags? Who makes the parts? Any reliability issues?

Saiga AR mag adapters

You'll need a bullet guide (which shouldn't be an issue with a basic conversion).

 

[LKB3rd]

What did it cost to modify it to take ar mags? Who makes the parts? Any reliability issues?

Google Dinzag Saiga for a site that has all sorts of parts for conversions. I don't think he has stuff for AR mags, but he has bullet guides, tools, and instructions to install one to use Regular AK magazines.
Even just to browse and get an idea of the stuff available, Dinzag has it all(most?) in one place.
ETA: No affiliation with him, but this page shows what is needed, and you can see what needs to be done from the pics
http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/x39rtk.html

 

[JustinJ]

I'm thinking an arsenal ak in 5.56 that takes ar mags would be just about the best possible end of world gun.

 

[TheSigmaEnigma]

There's no such thing as a "standard hi capacity" magazine. That's a contradiction of terms (even though one term is a fiction).

Saiga AR mag adapters

You'll need a bullet guide (which shouldn't be an issue with a basic conversion).

Well, I think you know what I mean. The conversion doesn't look very hard, but I don't think I would ever attempt that on a brand new rifle. My question is what can I get that's better then a Wasr for under $600? Is the Polish AKMS better? Is the Draco pistol any good? Also, do all AKs get key holing or is it pretty much exclusively CIA AK-74s?

-Enigma

 

[Girodin]

I find two guns to be the best values in AKs:

1) A saiga that one converts to pistol grip configuration him or herself. This gun runs $350 or so which leaves a lot of room to configure it to one's needs/wants.

2) A Draco SBR: These also can be had for $350 OTD and a $200 stamp and and stock (depending on how you do it) puts you right around $600.


As for AR mag adapters I wouldn't buy from Magnolia state armory. I was one of the many people Nathan failed to deliver to after charging my card. Long story short is that it took pursue a fraud claim to get my money back after I found out from 3rd party sources he had no intent to deliver. This guy has had two different rounds of serious problems with people. He admitted to me a number of months back when people were trying to get what they'd paid for his company was on the brink of collapse. Apparently his first round of taking money and not delivering was attributed to him being in a mental hospital.

There are a bunch of threads of over the saiga boards of him cursing at customers and freaking out when they asked questions about why they didn't get their orders he had promised firm deliver dates on.

Buyer beware.

Oh also beware of the install. I'm aware of three people who have destroyed their front trunions modifying their guns to take AR adapters.

 

[nalioth]

The conversion doesn't look very hard, but I don't think I would ever attempt that on a brand new rifle.

Your choice. Many do, as it greatly improves the gun.

My question is what can I get that's better then a Wasr for under $600? Is the Polish AKMS better?

There is no such thing as a "Polish AKMS" being sold in this country. There may be AKs with a stock or hand guards from a former Polish AKMS, but only the aesthetics are going to be Polish.

Is the Draco pistol any good?

It's the closest thing to a military AK being sold in the USA at this time.

Also, do all AKs get key holing or is it pretty much exclusively CIA AK-74s?

That problem is exclusive to Century.

 

[Gelgoog]

IAC AK47 $549

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct948.aspx

It is a much better option then a WASR, better parts, better fit and finish and all without having to deal with century and their horrible warranty policy. The IAC is pretty much the best gun your going to get in the price range without having to do conversion work.

A Saiga is a better gun, but an unconverted saiga runs in the $500 range already, and to get it looking like an AK-100 series then its going to run you another $400. which is putting it in Arsenal price range. At that point your better off just buying an SGL-31 from Arsenal and saving yourself all the work.

 

[TheSigmaEnigma]

Your choice. Many do, as it greatly improves the gun.

There is no such thing as a "Polish AKMS" being sold in this country. There may be AKs with a stock or hand guards from a former Polish AKMS, but only the aesthetics are going to be Polish.

It's the closest thing to a military AK being sold in the USA at this time.

That problem is exclusive to Century.

So should I stay away from Century? Also, I appreciate the advice, but you didn't really answer my question. Is the AKMS better then a WASR? Is the Draco better then a WASR? What is better then a Wasr besides a Saiga? I don't like the Saigas. No offense, I just don't like them.

 

[nalioth]

Is the AKMS better then a WASR?

Which AKMS?

Anyone can buy a Polish AKMS kit.

Anyone can build them. If I built it, I'd for sure consider it better than a WASR. A Century build? Heh, that's funny.

Which "AKMS" are you referring to?

Is the Draco better then a WASR?

The Draco is a pistol. That being said, (and I've already answered this) it's the closest thing to a new military AK you can buy in the USA.

What is better then a Wasr besides a Saiga?

Not much.
The Saiga is a brand new Kalashnikov, made of brand new components and is cheaper than the WASR (which is made of used parts).

I don't like the Saigas. No offense, I just don't like them.

What about them don't you like? Aren't you getting the picture that they can be turned into any style of AK you want?

 

[Gelgoog]

So should I stay away from Century? Also, I appreciate the advice, but you didn't really answer my question. Is the AKMS better then a WASR? Is the Draco better then a WASR? What is better then a Wasr besides a Saiga? I don't like the Saigas. No offense, I just don't like them.

Everything is better then a WASR except for guns built on a Hesse/Vulcan receiver.

Avoid anything built by Lancaster like the plague because of their business practices.

The saiga is excellent, but if you want an AK-100 gun you better off just buying an Arsenal SGL-31 which is a saiga that arsenal imported and converted into an milspec AK-100 gun.

If you want an AK in the $500 range then the IAC AK47 via atlantic firearms that I linked above is your best bet. They are getting fantastic reviews online, come with a much better warranty and are well built.

The only thing I have to disagree with Nanolith on, is that the Saiga can not be turned into an AK-100 at the sub $600 price point that the OP requested, which is why I do not think it qualifies for this particular thread request.

 

[nalioth]

Everything is better then a WASR except for guns built on a Hesse/Vulcan receiver.

. . or built by Hesse (on any receiver).

They are getting fantastic reviews online, come with a much better warranty and are well built.

Please keep in mind that a well-built AK will not ever need a warranty, so the presence of a warranty might be telling you something. . .

 

[TheSigmaEnigma]

Which AKMS?

Anyone can buy a Polish AKMS kit.

Anyone can build them. If I built it, I'd for sure consider it better than a WASR. A Century build? Heh, that's funny.

Which "AKMS" are you referring to?

The Draco is a pistol. That being said, (and I've already answered this) it's the closest thing to a new military AK you can buy in the USA.

Not much.
The Saiga is a brand new Kalashnikov, made of brand new components and is cheaper than the WASR (which is made of used parts).
What about them don't you like? Aren't you getting the picture that they can be turned into any style of AK you want?

Is the Draco pistol better then the WASR? Also, I don't want to spend >$600. Can I convert a Saiga back to AK for for under $600 without doing it myself? I don't like them because they don't look like AKs and because they don't accept regular AK mags. Can I buy a kit and build it myself? If so, where can I buy it?

Thanks,

Enigma

 

[Gelgoog]

Please keep in mind that a well-built AK will not ever need a warranty, so the presence of a warranty might be telling you something. . .

A well build AK may not need a warranty, but any good company will stand behind their product. Even the best companies have lemons and the occasional goof up, yet it is the frequency of those goof-ups and the company's policy to "make it right" that defines them.

So yes a well built AK should never need to go back, but if it does hope you bought one from a decent company, because if you are betting on CAI then your in for a world of hurt.

Is the Draco pistol better then the WASR?

Yes. The Draco is a Romaniam AIMR minus the stock, It comes into the country as is directly from the factory without century touching it...so yes it is better.

Also, I don't want to spend >$600. Can I convert a Saiga back to AK for for under $600 without doing it myself?

no. Even if you did the work yourself the parts and rifle are going to cost you more then $600. Add in labor and a SGL-31 (fully converted saiga) build by arsenal ends up being cheaper.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

Is the Draco pistol better then the WASR? Also, I don't want to spend >$600. Can I convert a Saiga back to AK for for under $600 without doing it myself? I don't like them because they don't look like AKs and because they don't accept regular AK mags. Can I buy a kit and build it myself? If so, where can I buy it?

no. Even if you did the work yourself the parts and rifle are going to cost you more then $600. Add in labor and a SGL-31 (fully converted saiga) build by arsenal ends up being cheaper.

Not entirely true, Gelgoog. I've been keeping my eyes on the Saigas and doing the research over the last couple weeks, gearing up for when I get the cash to lay my hands on one.

The 7.62x39 Saigas available online run ~$350-400, so after shipping and transfer fees you're looking at ~$400-450. There's a couple at my local shop for $399-419.

The following is a (almost) complete basic conversion kit, priced at $124.95:
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-449/TAPCO-SAIGA-RIFLE-CONVERSION/Detail
This kit lacks a bullet guide (kind like a feed ramp), which is needed to make the Saiga take standard AK mags. Not hard to add, from what I read, but should be considered. Note that this does not include the stuff to replace the Saiga fore-end, but if you're like me and you like the Saiga fore-end, it doesn't matter.

I personally plan on going through http://www.dinzagarms.com for my own parts, as you can piece together all the basic conversion parts, including a quality bullet guide, for <$150 with shipping. Still no fore-end, but I like it that way . Dinzag also has good reference material for doing the conversion itself.

Either way, you end up at or below $600 to get a brand new, high-quality AK.

The Saiga conversion process itself scared me a bit at first when I first considered it, but after examination I am confident that even clumsy, gunsmithing-inexperienced me can accomplish it with relative ease, in about 3 hours if I go slow.

If I was not heart-set on the Saiga route (or if I did not like the idea of the conversion), I would most likely pick up that IAC linked by Gelgoog, or save a while longer and pitch in a bit more for the next models up. Note that Atlantic also sells already-converted Saigas for $639 (Red Jacket), and the Arsenal AKs starting at $759. Much more money than that and you start getting into AR territory, which I think is silly for an AK

[edit] I've read a couple places that Saiga tends to import their guns only once a year, and we're right around that time. I haven't yet been able to ascertain if they're already here or if they're going to come in inside the next couple months, but it may be something to keep in mind... [/edit]

[edit 2] After thinking about it a bit more, Gelgoog might be more right about the price than I first thought. I was not factoring in the front sight block and ability to use muzzle attachments, and the bayonet lug/cleaning rod on some of the other rifles. The extra cost of restoring those parts would definitely start adding up. If those things matter to you, the IAC and other rifles will be more desirable than the Saigas.

 

[chris in va]

I bought my Saiga for $300 in 2006, put about $150 in parts on it. Works great, much tighter than the Norinco I fired a while back.

BTW, don't wait too long. Izhmash no longer exports Saigas.

 

[nalioth]

BTW, don't wait too long. Izhmash no longer exports Saigas.

Source?