Best AK-47 under $600?

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Go to Atlantic and look at the RJ 132.
I bought one and I am very happy with it, they do a really good job on the conversions.
The story about Saiga's not being imported is legend and it gets around every time the market is flush with them,..
"No More, No More !" Should read, "I am overstocked, Buy Now! Buy Now!"
 
That means its being studied, not that they can no longer be imported NOW. Also, that would ONLY affect Saiga SHOTGUNS, and has nothing to do with rifles whatsoever
 
ATF announced at the SHOT show that the Saiga 12 is no longer to be imported. I referenced the article only to point out that the current pricing hike is not due to an oversupply issue.

You are correct in that it does not affect other Saiga rifles.
 
JusinJ said:
ATF announced at the SHOT show that the Saiga 12 is no longer to be imported.
Please provide a source for your information.


There has been a lot of hot air on this subject spewed by folks who want to sell Saigas.

Officially (as far as I've seen) the ATF has said absolutely NOTHING about banning Saigas.
 
Not entirely true, Gelgoog. I've been keeping my eyes on the Saigas and doing the research over the last couple weeks, gearing up for when I get the cash to lay my hands on one.

The 7.62x39 Saigas available online run ~$350-400, so after shipping and transfer fees you're looking at ~$400-450. There's a couple at my local shop for $399-419.

The following is a (almost) complete basic conversion kit, priced at $124.95:
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....VERSION/Detail
This kit lacks a bullet guide (kind like a feed ramp), which is needed to make the Saiga take standard AK mags. Not hard to add, from what I read, but should be considered. Note that this does not include the stuff to replace the Saiga fore-end, but if you're like me and you like the Saiga fore-end, it doesn't matter.

I personally plan on going through http://www.dinzagarms.com for my own parts, as you can piece together all the basic conversion parts, including a quality bullet guide, for <$150 with shipping. Still no fore-end, but I like it that way :p. Dinzag also has good reference material for doing the conversion itself.

Either way, you end up at or below $600 to get a brand new, high-quality AK.

The Saiga conversion process itself scared me a bit at first when I first considered it, but after examination I am confident that even clumsy, gunsmithing-inexperienced me can accomplish it with relative ease, in about 3 hours if I go slow.

If I was not heart-set on the Saiga route (or if I did not like the idea of the conversion), I would most likely pick up that IAC linked by Gelgoog, or save a while longer and pitch in a bit more for the next models up. Note that Atlantic also sells already-converted Saigas for $639 (Red Jacket), and the Arsenal AKs starting at $759. Much more money than that and you start getting into AR territory, which I think is silly for an AK :p

[edit] I've read a couple places that Saiga tends to import their guns only once a year, and we're right around that time. I haven't yet been able to ascertain if they're already here or if they're going to come in inside the next couple months, but it may be something to keep in mind... [/edit]

[edit 2] After thinking about it a bit more, Gelgoog might be more right about the price than I first thought. I was not factoring in the front sight block and ability to use muzzle attachments, and the bayonet lug/cleaning rod on some of the other rifles. The extra cost of restoring those parts would definitely start adding up. If those things matter to you, the IAC and other rifles will be more desirable than the Saigas.

Well you can convert a saiga for not alot of money, but you can not turn it into an AK-100 for under $600 which is what I was saying.

AK-140B (compensator) $56
AK-334 ( 90 degree gas block) $55
AK-338 ( retainer lower HG) $20
AK-080EG ( gas tube) $30
AK-010BU (mag lever catch) $6
AK-167B (front sight block assembly) $84
AK-100 folding stock set, PG, HG ~$200-300.

A plain converted saiga is fine, but it's not a AK-100 and doing the conversion to make an AK-100 is more expensive then just buying an SGL-31.

[edit: I did not see your edits lol]
 
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For the AK-100, you forgot to add the drill bit for the 3rd hole in the receiver, and the hammer, auto sear, and disconnector!
 
Sorry to break the news but the rumors are true.

Did you even bother to read what you linked to?

A) it is about shotguns

B) it is a study

c) it doesn't indicate that saigas in their current form per se would not be allowed to be imported if the study was adopted whole cloth

In sum, what you linked to is so far from evidence that saiga rifles would no longer be imported it is hard for me to put it into words.
 
I was told word of mouth by an attendee of the shot show. Obviously this is not proof and i msyelf am becoming skeptical. ATF definitely spoke about the Saiga shotguns but it may have just been to mention they are going to perform the study I referenced. Shotgun news recently also had an article referencing the issue and it appears the ATF is pondering classification of saiga 12 gauges as destructive devices just like street sweepers. If so, worst case scenario is no more saiga 12s could be imported. Worst case scenario is those of us who own them would be required to register them as class III weapons.
 
"If you can't link to an official source - it's FUD."

Really? then i suppose 80% of internet boards are "FUD". But thanks for the suggestion.
 
justinJ said:
nalioth said:
If you can't link to an official source - it's FUD.

Really? then i suppose 80% of internet boards are "FUD". But thanks for the suggestion.
Some of them more than that, I'd guess, but yeah, be careful on some of'em.

BTW, "FUD" is an acronym and it stands for "fear, uncertainty and doubt". So a board would contain FUD - not be FUD.
 
Wow, now we're arguing grammar. It is perfectly acceptable to say something is either mostly crap or full of crap and mean the same thing so saying something is 80% "FUD" or full of "80%" "FUD" also has the same meaning.

So I supposed "FUD off" would not be a correct use of the term?
 
:faceplam

Being a fear monger does nothing. If there is no official annoucment on this, then all you are doing is assuming. Nothing in print currently states anything about intent to ban Saiga S12's from being imported, but many have taken the study that you linked to and turned it into a massive sales pitch. When the jack booted thugs make a formal annoucement, I'll believe it.
 
I already own my saiga 12 and am not a firearms dealer so have nothing to gain. It doesnt take much intelligence to see why the ATF study was conducted. They sure as hell arent looking for ways to protect our gun rights. Ecspecially considering the views of the current attorney general and other ATF officials. Regardless of what they have or haven't officially announced, if you ever want to own a saiga 12 it would be wise not to wait much longer. Jeff Knox seems to think so and i quote: "...the telegraphed message from ATF is "prepare for new import restrictions on military looking shotguns".." Feel free to read his article at the following link:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Is+an+Obama+gun+ban+imminent?-a0251727341
 
JustinJ said:
the telegraphed message from ATF is "prepare for new import restrictions on military looking shotguns".."
Please tell me how these shotguns are "military looking":
saiga12-adjsight.jpg
Do you see any "military features"?

As has been said above, if you don't have any "official" word, please don't spread other people's (or your own) FUD.
 
Wow, i dont even know where to start. First off, this is a board for exchanging ideas, opinions and information; not for repeating stupid acronyms. Based on the information available(the referenced study and stated views of current government officials) it is my opinion that the ATF will ban shotguns as the study conclusion recomends. Wether or not "I" see any military features in a saiga 12 is completely irrelevant. Unfortunately though, the study lists the key defining charateristic of a military firearm as one that is able to accept high capacity box magazines or drums. The saiga 12, in its imported configuration, can do so. Therefor, a logical conclusion would be that the saiga 12 will be banned from importation as other firearms able to accept high capacity mags have been so. Do i like it or agree that it should be so? Of course not but again, my opinion is irrelevant to ATF policy. Now, in regards to "don't spread other people's FUD", Jeff Knox is a well known and respected industry writer and analyst who is far more knowledgeable of the situation than you or I. The article i referenced was published in Shotgun News Volume 65, issue 8. So if you can offer a counter perspective with reason and logic, please, be my guest. Otherwise, please dont waste board space with SMUC (Simple Minded Useless Comments).
 
So I supposed "FUD off" would not be a correct use of the term?
Like this one?


Too bad this thread got out of control, the OP is asking asking a question from which many could benefit.
 
Oh come on, "FUD off" was funny. But yes, you are right. In spite of the fact i was defending my position I do regret letting myself get drawn into bickering.
 
JustinJ said:
Wow, i dont even know where to start. First off, this is a board for exchanging ideas, opinions and information; not for repeating stupid acronyms.
Actually, when faced with folks stating falsehoods, it's quite an accurate acronym (see below for evidence).
JustinJ said:
Based on the information available(the referenced study and stated views of current government officials) it is my opinion that the ATF will ban shotguns as the study conclusion recomends.
What study conclusion? The study period hasn't closed yet (interested parties can submit comments up until May 1, 2011)

JustinJ said:
Wether or not "I" see any military features in a saiga 12 is completely irrelevant. Unfortunately though, the study lists the key defining charateristic of a military firearm as one that is able to accept high capacity box magazines or drums. The saiga 12, in its imported configuration, can do so. Therefor, a logical conclusion would be that the saiga 12 will be banned from importation as other firearms able to accept high capacity mags have been so. Do i like it or agree that it should be so? Of course not but again, my opinion is irrelevant to ATF policy.
Well, the law says that "non sporting guns" can't be imported - not "non-sporting guns that can be legally modified to 'non sporting configuration' "

As the Saiga is imported, it's the epitome of "sporting gun".
JustinJ said:
Now, in regards to "don't spread other people's FUD", Jeff Knox is a well known and respected industry writer and analyst who is far more knowledgeable of the situation than you or I. The article i referenced was published in Shotgun News Volume 65, issue 8. So if you can offer a counter perspective with reason and logic, please, be my guest. Otherwise, please dont waste board space with SMUC (Simple Minded Useless Comments).
Jeff Knox (like his father before him) is a columnist who makes his living writing articles that drive people to buy the publications he writes for.

It is a given that the government is always looking for ways to ban guns, so his writing on the subject doesn't really say anything (he could have written about any firearm). IOW, he can write about the government wanting to ban firearms, and he'll always be right.

The nitty-gritty is "Where are the facts that the government wants to ban Saigas?" Saigas aren't even mentioned in the ATF's study. Browning, Ruger, Mossburg and Remington are - do you think those are going to be restricted from sale?

Get your facts straight before you post (have you even read the ATF importability study, or are you basing your "facts" on "I read it on the internet"?)
 
While i disagree with your conclusions i will say that the above post does at least finally contribute something to the arguement.

The study conclusion can be found at the end (under "Conclusion") and is the recomendations based on their findings:
"The purpose of section 925(d)(3) is to provide a limited exception to the general prohibition on the importation of firearms without placing “any undue or unnecessary Federal restrictions or burdens on law-abiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearms….”51 Our determinations will in no way preclude the importation of true sporting shotguns. While it will certainly prevent the importation of certain shotguns, we believe that 51 90 P.L. 351 (1968).‐ 14 ‐those shotguns containing the enumerated features cannot be fairly characterized as “sporting” shotguns under the statute. Therefore, it is the recommendation of the working group that shotguns with any of the characteristics or features listed above not be authorized for importation."

"Well, the law says that "non sporting guns" can't be imported - not "non-sporting guns that can be legally modified to 'non sporting configuration' "
You are correct, the law says non sporting guns can't be imported. Based on previous precedents a non sporting gun is one that can accept high capacity magazines and/or drums. The saiga 12 needs no modification to do so.

Saigas are may not be mentioned in the study but they are blatantly referenced to in description and pictured as are the drum magazines they readily accept without modification. The study zeroed in this attribute of a firearm as being "non-sporting".

"Jeff Knox (like his father before him) is a columnist who makes his living writing articles that drive people to buy the publications he writes for."

Yes, and the reason he was given a column is due to knowledge of the topic. By that arguement no magazine article has merit.

It is a FACT that the study recomends banning the imporation of shotguns with the ability to accept high cap(greater than 5 round) and drum magazines in addition to other features. Can we at least agree on that? I know of no other currently imported shotgun besides saigas that can do so. Do you? The only thing that can be debated here is wether or not the ATF will adopt the recomendation. And as i said before, given who makes those decisions, it is highly likely saigas will be banned. If you can provide reason why they aren't likely to do so please share because I would certainly prefer they dont.
 
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