Maverick223
Member
Mauser 98...best hunting rifle ever issued. Now if I had to use it for military service, i'd probably change my mind and go with the Lee Enfield.
Best Bolt Action (General Issue) Battle Rifle
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DougW
Member
#4mk1 Enfield
henschman
Member
The capacity of the Enfield is pretty much moot for combat, after you have burned through the first 10 rounds. After that, you're just going to be feeding it from 5-round stripper clips like with all the other bolt actions. Also, .303 is on the low-powered end compared to .30 '06, 7.92x57, 7.62x54R, and 7.5 Swiss.
I still say 1903A3. Make that a Smith-Corona 1903A3. Shoots like a dream, the sights are amazing, and a very smooth bolt. What's not to like? I shot my buddy's at the range a couple weekends ago. I was rapid-firing it as fast as I could run the bolt from the seated position with a 1907 sling, and I could not miss that 4 MOA target at 200 yards. If you define "firepower" as the amount of rounds you can put ON TARGET in a given time, instead of just how many rounds you can put DOWNRANGE in a given time, that rifle had more "firepower" than any of the semi-autos on the range that day. 5 hits in 20 seconds is better than 2 hits and 8 misses in 20 seconds. I would not feel a bit ashamed to take that rifle to combat.
The M-1917 would be a runner up... also has great sights (though not as easily adjustable for windage as the 1903), and it has the excellent .30 '06 round.
I still say 1903A3. Make that a Smith-Corona 1903A3. Shoots like a dream, the sights are amazing, and a very smooth bolt. What's not to like? I shot my buddy's at the range a couple weekends ago. I was rapid-firing it as fast as I could run the bolt from the seated position with a 1907 sling, and I could not miss that 4 MOA target at 200 yards. If you define "firepower" as the amount of rounds you can put ON TARGET in a given time, instead of just how many rounds you can put DOWNRANGE in a given time, that rifle had more "firepower" than any of the semi-autos on the range that day. 5 hits in 20 seconds is better than 2 hits and 8 misses in 20 seconds. I would not feel a bit ashamed to take that rifle to combat.
The M-1917 would be a runner up... also has great sights (though not as easily adjustable for windage as the 1903), and it has the excellent .30 '06 round.
Maverick223
Member
I disagree...even after the first magazine is expended you have the capacity for two of those 5rnd. stripper clips. Additionally, you have the ability to add 5rnds. before your entire magazine is depleted...not an option for most other bolt rifles.
madcratebuilder
Member
Lee Enfield
Mauser
Springfield
The ten round capacity of the LE gives it the edge as a battle rifle. The aperture sights and cock on closing are a plus.
Mauser
Springfield
The ten round capacity of the LE gives it the edge as a battle rifle. The aperture sights and cock on closing are a plus.
Mosin-Nagants seem more lefty-friendly than most turnbolt battle rifles I have handled, but I have not made an earnest effort to try them all. (We had a Polish version for a while, but my wife gave it to her brother.) A Finn 39 is on my milsurp short list, but an SMLE is also on that short list, just farther down.
Shadow 7D
Member
K31 or Swedish Mausers
Old Time Hunter
Member
Ditto, and the Enfield is a USA design! Even if it is the ugliest battle arm of WWI and WWII.Mauser 98...best hunting rifle ever issued. Now if I had to use it for military service, i'd probably change my mind and go with the Lee Enfield.
Blue Brick
Member
91/30
Ignition Override
Member
I don't know which is better for battle, but my Enfield #4s aperture sight is much more effective than the Yugo Mauser's sights.
XxWinxX94-:
Have you ever carried a #5 "Jungle Carbine" for a few hundred yards and used it?
If I knew how, I would steer everybody away from both Enfields and M-1 Garands, to limit price increases.
They don't like us to create thread topics which describe this in a dry, subtle, humourous manner.
Let's count our blessings for the chic glamour/"cash distraction" value of the AR-15s etc.
XxWinxX94-:
Have you ever carried a #5 "Jungle Carbine" for a few hundred yards and used it?
If I knew how, I would steer everybody away from both Enfields and M-1 Garands, to limit price increases.
They don't like us to create thread topics which describe this in a dry, subtle, humourous manner.
Let's count our blessings for the chic glamour/"cash distraction" value of the AR-15s etc.
HorseSoldier
Member
SMLE
Rommel pointed out in Infantry Attacks that close range fights usually go to the guy with at least one extra round in his rifle. My recollection is he learned that fighting at bayonet range with a French soldier in 1914, so even in the bolt gun era he seems to have been onto something.
Don't know about the rifle for top of the list, but 6.5x55 Swedish is probably the best fighting cartridge of the bolt rifle era.
Ehhh. Doesn't even really deserve to be considered, since it's pretty much just a Mauser rip off. No innovation to speak of, and definitely none that made it a better fighting gun than the pattern it was copied from.
You know, as a nation we bust their balls pretty hard on things military, but the honest truth is that had it been the US military of 1939 facing the Wehrmacht instead of the French military, I doubt the outcome would have been much more impressive for the non-Nazi side of things.
Rommel pointed out in Infantry Attacks that close range fights usually go to the guy with at least one extra round in his rifle. My recollection is he learned that fighting at bayonet range with a French soldier in 1914, so even in the bolt gun era he seems to have been onto something.
Don't know about the rifle for top of the list, but 6.5x55 Swedish is probably the best fighting cartridge of the bolt rifle era.
Ehhh. Doesn't even really deserve to be considered, since it's pretty much just a Mauser rip off. No innovation to speak of, and definitely none that made it a better fighting gun than the pattern it was copied from.
You know, as a nation we bust their balls pretty hard on things military, but the honest truth is that had it been the US military of 1939 facing the Wehrmacht instead of the French military, I doubt the outcome would have been much more impressive for the non-Nazi side of things.
Deputy25
Member
I have a Enfield, an 03A3, a few K98s, and a couple 91/30s. The K98s are hands down my favorites, followed by the 91/30.
rodinal220
Member
No.4 Mk I
Steve Marshall
Member
Since the "hits on target" card was played, how about Sgt. Snoxall? 37 hits on a 12" target at 300 yards in one minute. And that was an Enfield from the WW1 era, not even a #4 MK 1 or11.
Ignition Override
Member
HorseSoldier:
Good points about how the French in WW2 always are our scapegoats. Maybe the ground troops could have been successful without decent command and control.
French generals in 1940 were still prepared mostly for World War One (Maginot Line complexes etc: no pun intended). The grunt soldiers had little chance, and the RAF quickly evacuated its fighters back to England etc, knowing what might be next.
We partly owe the success in the American Revolution to the assistance given by the French govt. and military (their old British enemies acieved mastery of the seas etc), but this is an inconvenient historical factor.
Good points about how the French in WW2 always are our scapegoats. Maybe the ground troops could have been successful without decent command and control.
French generals in 1940 were still prepared mostly for World War One (Maginot Line complexes etc: no pun intended). The grunt soldiers had little chance, and the RAF quickly evacuated its fighters back to England etc, knowing what might be next.
We partly owe the success in the American Revolution to the assistance given by the French govt. and military (their old British enemies acieved mastery of the seas etc), but this is an inconvenient historical factor.
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jcwit
member
If the Enfield is/was such a great rifle for the military or whatever in that time period why isn't someone making a sporter version of said rifle. Just saying.
Maverick223
Member
See post no. 26. The Mauser was the best hunting rifle ever issued...by comparison the Enfield was only the best turn-bolt battle rifle.
The Mauser was, and remains to this day, the strongest and easiest to modify of any prevalent bolt action mil-surplus rifle. The Enfield doesn't compare...but that doesn't make it any less of a great battle rifle. BTW, there are new Enfields being made in various chamberings by AIA (though I don't believe that they are still eligible for import into the US, but some slipped through a few years back).
jcwit
member
So thats implying a great battle rifle has no place in being a great hunting rifle?
It worked for other battle rifles.
It worked for other battle rifles.
Maverick223
Member
No, not at all; the main problem is that the LE is not as strong of an action, so you are limited to what you can chamber it for (though it can handle most any moderate power standard cartridge)...OTOH the Mauser can accommodate nearly anything that'll fit the physical dimensions. It is also more available, and IMO simpler to work on (but that may simply be a factor of greater familiarity).
Don357
Member
1) Enfield 2) Mauser 3) Springfield 4)either the FR-8 or M44 Mosin. But for overall accuracy the Swedish M-41 Mauser.
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