Bolt Action & Carbine vs. Battle Rifle

[ak47nevada]

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on packing an AK/AR with a Bolt Action versus a .308 Battle Rifle.

I'm leaning towards the Carbine/Bolt Action way and need to know the best way to hump the bolt action around. Is there a system that will switch holding the carbine and bolt action depending on what I'd like in the field?

These questions have been on my mind since I read Boston's Gun Bible but haven't gotton around to asking them till now. Thanks!

 

[Jeff White]

Moving to Rifle Forum...Jeff

 

[Art Eatman]

Just guesstimating, I'd venture that if you're wandering "afield" and have use for both types, you'd be wearing a pack. And, apparently, carrying the carbine in your hands or slung.

I guess I'd think in terms of a takedown bolt-action, scabbarded in pockets either side of the main pack.

Wuz I thinking of a situation in which I might want a carbine to save my precious body from Them, I'd be much more likely to think sneaky-snake and not be seen--and thus a very light bolt-action would be my one and only long gun.

But I'd rather sneak up to the Bad Guys' camp at about 3AM and make sure their water supply no longer existed. Desert living makes me think about things like that...

, Art

 

[NMshooter]

The kind of bolt gun you suggest is a specialists tool.

Can you honestly make use of it?

If you can, you do not have to carry it all the time, only when you need it.

Same thing, to a lesser extent, with the "battle" rifle.

Carry whatever you need for the task at hand, sometimes it is not a rifle at all.

And don't mess with guys like Art, they might know a thing or two...

 

[bad LT]

Well, there is this:

http://www.kifaru.net/MGgunber.htm

scroll down and check out the auxilary holster.

Of course if your plan needs that much "firepower", maybe its time to rethink the plan.

 

[Malamute]

Maybe I'm out of synch here, but what are you going to be doing that you'd want to carry 2 long guns? Is this a recreational activity, or do you work for an agency that has a job description that requires 2 long guns? Just curious.

I get enough of a workout carrying a Winchester 94 carbine or an 1886 carbine when out in the hills or mountains. I carry a scoped bolt gun when actually hunting, rather than just out wandering, but never both. 30 or so rounds for whatever rifle, and a sixgun and belt of shells make a fairly substantial load for much walking. Add a day pack,.....and it's starting to be a chore just to get out and have "fun".

 

[artherd]

Just get an AR in .308. Bushmaster, DPMS, and Armalite now all make 'em. Sub-MOA seem to be had from all 3.

Armalite even makes their AR-10 in .300RSAUM if you *really* need to punch out there

 

[Steve Smith]

For anything you'll need a battle rifle for, you'll need more people. A said before, if you can make use of the specialists' tool, then you probably don't need a battle rifle, as you will be qute sneaky anyway.

 

[ak47nevada]

bad LT, thanks for the link.

Thanks for the replies, I was asking regarding SHTF as well as extended patroling in Afghanistan (nothing I'm doing, but my relative is).

 

[bad LT]

no problem ak47nevada, and wish your relative in Afghanistan good luck.

 

[Zak Smith]

The BGB should have been a 20 page pamphlet. Instead it's an unfocused bloated volume with questionable and/or highly biased advice.

In any case, look at the problem based on the capabilities the weapons provide vs. your needs (or the hypothetical situation).

The average battle rifle has accuracy, sights, and effective range (because of the former) similar to a carbine with good ammo, yet it's a lot heavier, longer, and slower shooting.

If the bolt rifle is really a competent sniper rifle, in 308, 300WM, 338LM, or a non-military long range caliber like 7RM, then it is effective on man sized targets 2-3 the distance of the carbine, and can likewise engage partial or small targets MUCH further than the carbine or battle rifle.

For example, a carbine with a 3.5x ACOG sight can engage silhouette targets to about 500-600 yards with a good chance of hits. But 500 yards is just getting started for a sniper rifle with proper optics and a competent shooter.

If you need close to medium range penetration through cars or building materials, a battle rifle might make sense instead of a carbine.

-z

 

[MrMurphy]

You could get a 5.56mm AR, in a 16.5" carbine, flattop with optics for close range. Carry a spare upper (instead of a whole rifle) with a 20" or 24" free-floated barrel, sniper scope, etc and when needed, swap uppers and ta da, you've got a good medium range sniper rifle (out to 800 yards or so), even in a different caliber (6.8mm SPC, .300 Whisper, etc).

Some military special ops groups do/did this I've heard.

 

[Mulliga]

In terms of comfort, I'd much rather carry a FAL than both an AR carbine and a bolt action, especially if the latter means the bolt action isn't instantly ready to use (takedown style) or is strapped to the side of my pack (hinders movement).

But, as others in the thread have said, the only thing you're going to get from the average unscoped battle rifle (FAL, M1A, G3/CETME) over an AR/AK is better penetration of materials (though you can get even better penetration with shotgun slugs, too). Max range will still realistically be a few hundred yards, depending on terrain, especially if you only have irons. And, in terms of hunting, survival, or even just plinking, for me, at least, anything over 200 yards is a long shot.

 

[ak47nevada]

Zak, thanks for the informative post. I disagree with your comments on BGB though.

MrMurphy, I've also read about soldiers doing this awhile back - completely forgot! Thanks. This is a great idea if I choose the AR platform.

Mulliga, appreciate the heads up on irons in the field.