Any distance from 0-500 yards, open areas, little dense packets of trees. Also a town here wnd there. Using it in a WROL situation, where there must be one 'go to' caliber for everything. Must be avaible in a semi auto format. Ideas? Thought about the 5.56 but I don't like it past 300 yards because of the loss of velocity. I'm thinking either a 5.45 or .308, but I am open to any ideas really.
Best Caliber For...
- Thread starter OneWound
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308, 20" Rem 700 LTR, just about ANY AR10 platform can use same ammo. 168 grain SMKs are GTG to 600 yds in these guns, 175 gr SMKs to 1000.
Match ammo is available for a buck a round. Get a suppressor and you're king of the hill for the end times. For a while anyway.
FWIW.
Match ammo is available for a buck a round. Get a suppressor and you're king of the hill for the end times. For a while anyway.
FWIW.
I'd choose a 5.56 over a 5.45, but it really seems like you want a 308
If you're not worried about cost, go for it bro
If you're not worried about cost, go for it bro
The reason for not wanting the 5.56 is because when it goes under a certain velocity its just punches holes (from what I've heard). A 5.45 doesn't rely on velocity to cause harm. One thing norm, is my state doesn't allow suppress ore, what shall I do?
I think what you want is a VEPR .308. Being an AK, it's inherently suited to WROL situations. And its accuracy is near 1 MOA. The 16" version is handy and well-balanced as well, weighing in at 8 pounds even unloaded. Basically, it's a good choice for a rifle that can reach out and touch something without breaking your back or your bank.
Too little information to know what you are asking about.
Questions?
1. Biggest wild or dangerous game in your area are Brown bears, or Pocket Gophers?
2. You do know that people are shooting the 5.56 NATO in long range high level competition now don't you? No body is shooting 5.45 Russian in long range target competition and never have. They are not 500 yard accurate
3. Do you know how far a 500 yard rifle shot really is??
4. .308 bullets ricochet much further then .223 bullets if there are towns in the way.
rc
Questions?
1. Biggest wild or dangerous game in your area are Brown bears, or Pocket Gophers?
2. You do know that people are shooting the 5.56 NATO in long range high level competition now don't you? No body is shooting 5.45 Russian in long range target competition and never have. They are not 500 yard accurate
3. Do you know how far a 500 yard rifle shot really is??
4. .308 bullets ricochet much further then .223 bullets if there are towns in the way.
rc
Rc, yes I do. Only reason I thought of the 5;.45 was because the Russians liked it in Afghanistan. As for the MN, bolt action...not meeting the requirments
AethelstanAegen
Member
The Russians thought it was pretty good in Afghanistan, except that they were often out of range from enemies that had range on them. What I mean by that was that Afghans using .303 British Lee-Enfields could shoot them, punch through the body armor, and be safely out of range from the 5.45 AK-74s. You will find pictures of Russians in Afghanistan with old Mosin-Nagants in addition to their AK-74s in case they found themselves in a fight the 5.45 wasn't able to deal with; the saving grace was how many SVDs they had embedded in platoons.
The 5.45 is a great round and in many cases I think the equal to 5.56, but it's certainly not a wonder bullet and it has most of the same drawbacks found in 5.56. It can be done but I think they're are certainly much better rounds out there for 500 yds.
AethelstanAegen
Member
I'm not a big WROL question guy, but for what it's worth, I sold off my AKs and if I ever needed to, I'd have complete faith in one of my old milsurp rifles. What it sounds like you're discussing, I think a rifle in .308 would be nice compromise (you have the power but you still get the style of rifle you're looking for). I think the VEPR in .308 or 7.62x54r and the AR-10 suggested earlier would fit your purposes. See if you can find a range where you can test one first if possible and see what works best for you. The 5.56 and 5.45 could be used out to 500 but they're not going to be ideal for the job. That said .308 might be too much for some closer distances. The gist of it is, there's no one round that will do everything perfectly.
C-grunt
Member
VEPR, AR10 or Siaga 308. Good platform in a common chambering.
That beig said don discount the 5.56 at range, especially with good bullets. The M262 has a bunch of confirmed kills out past 300 yards and I believe a few out past 1000 too. The M262 yaws pretty consistently and fragments down around 2200 FPS which IIRC is around 250 yards in a 16 inch barrel. Even if it doesn't fragment a hit to the torso is going to be a serious wound.
That beig said don discount the 5.56 at range, especially with good bullets. The M262 has a bunch of confirmed kills out past 300 yards and I believe a few out past 1000 too. The M262 yaws pretty consistently and fragments down around 2200 FPS which IIRC is around 250 yards in a 16 inch barrel. Even if it doesn't fragment a hit to the torso is going to be a serious wound.
Both the 5.56 and 5.45 have piss poor ballistics, normal SP/HP bullets don't maintain minimum ethical standards past 125 yards so 500 yards is simply out of the question. The 308 is VASTLY better for shooting range my 168gr Ballistic Tips have a .490 BC and are effective beyond the 500yard mark.
If you don't want to deal with 30 caliber recoil or want something that shoots faster/flatter consider a 6.5mm. My 6.5x55 has 243 level recoil but has an effective range of 725 yards further then I ever care to shoot at deer, it's ballistic twins the 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmore are both AR10 compatible.
If you don't want to deal with 30 caliber recoil or want something that shoots faster/flatter consider a 6.5mm. My 6.5x55 has 243 level recoil but has an effective range of 725 yards further then I ever care to shoot at deer, it's ballistic twins the 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmore are both AR10 compatible.
Torian
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30-06, .308 are both good choice. If you want something with a little less punch, consider a .243 or 25-06.
I've shot the 5.56 far more than I care to in the last few years in a variety of circumstances, and I wouldn't trust it to do much past 300m. If there is any vegetation between you and your target, forget about it.
I've shot the 5.56 far more than I care to in the last few years in a variety of circumstances, and I wouldn't trust it to do much past 300m. If there is any vegetation between you and your target, forget about it.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Oh, dear...a "best caliber for" question!
I've always thought the 30-06 was an outstanding all-around high powered cartridge for just about anything you would want one for.
And 500 yards wouldn't be a challenge at all for a 30-06.
I've always thought the 30-06 was an outstanding all-around high powered cartridge for just about anything you would want one for.
And 500 yards wouldn't be a challenge at all for a 30-06.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
My suggestion would go buy a rifle chambered in 308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO if metrics are your liking. Buy a M1A or AR 10 or whatever trips your trigger. The 5,56 NATO or the 5.45 will not allow you to effectively or easily reach out and touch something or someone at 500 yards. The 308 is simple and common.
Just My Take
Ron
The parameters are for a "do all" cartridge and semi-auto.
IMO, the .308 is more of a do-all than a .223--and I've messed with both of them. Semi-auto? AR-10 and M-1A seem like the more usable choices. Easy maintenance, among other things.
IMO, the .308 is more of a do-all than a .223--and I've messed with both of them. Semi-auto? AR-10 and M-1A seem like the more usable choices. Easy maintenance, among other things.
When it comes to performance, the lowly .243 should be considered. When it comes to rifles chambered in that round, it could be worse.
There are lots of options, but a garand from the cmp along with lots of ammo to go with it seems to fit your criteria.
mdauben
Member
Looking at the scenario your post seems to be suggesting, I'd really want two guns. A reliable semi in 5.56mm (AR, SCAR, FN, etc.) and a scoped bolt-action in .308 Win. (Remington, Winchester, etc.). If I could only have one, I'd probably go with an AR platform in .308 Win.
I do have two options set up for the two gun deal. Reason for 'do all' rifle is in case I don't have time to get set up for that and have only enough time to grab one rifle and get out of dodge. Then I'd possibly come back for the other two options. As said before, I think I'll go with a .308. The platform? Either a ptr 91 or an m1a.
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