Best Caliber For...

[ORHunter79]

Ok, but how long does it take them before they stop firing back? Ie: Do they have enough adrenaline to be able to push through the pain?

Adrenalin lasts but a minute. Most people once hit, look for safety. Only well trained professionals push through the pain; and only when knowing that ones death serves a higher purpose be it your battle buddies living on or for God. Also at that range, adrenalin is irrelevant. Adrenalin only comes into play for a few seconds when it up close and personal. At 500 yards or beyond people hide and "lick" their wounds. Either way, in a WROL scenario, people will duck vs fight on. WROL is about survival, not glory. Again during WROL, an infected scratch can and will kill before a well placed round.

 

[Goju]

For 6.5 Grendel the Wolf Gold line has a 120 gr MPT load that runs about $14 box / 20 during normal product demand. This would be the same manufacturer as the .308 that Fragout linked to. Good range ammo to 200-300 yards and could be used to hunt deer sized game in a pinch, although it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[clang]

If WROL means the same thing as SHTF, you are going to think long and hard about taking potshots at 500 yards mostly because you will no longer be a reliable source of ammo to restock your supplies.

If you are really good enough to hit a man sized moving target at 500 yards, you would probably want a good 30-06 bolt action rifle. Why? They are affordable, accurate and .30-06 is one of the most readily available rounds in the USA (once we get out of this damned ammo shortage).

You would also want an AR or AK or FN or whatever military style weapon that floats your boat for when things get closer up. .556 has the advantage of being able to store and carry more ammo, but .308 can shoot through things like car doors better. Who knows for sure which situation you are more likely to see.

Other considerations, are you a loner or working with others? Do you consider the locals friendlies? What type of situations that require a rifle are most likely to happen where you are located?

 

[-v-]

How about a Serbu Shorty shotgun? Its a bit bigger then a handgun, light, can handle bird shot to get food (squirrels and rabbits) and buck shot and slugs for social situations or bagging a bigger quarry (deer). Plus, if its a real WROL/SHTF I think you'll be spending more time avoiding getting into firefights, then you will be shooting your way to glory. Really, what survival benefit exists in shooting at someone who is 500 yards away?

This is on top of other considerations such as food, water, shelter, and medical care. Ammo can't keep you warm at night, it can't quench your thirst, and while it can help to put food in your belly, its otherwise inedible.

So, to bring this back to a reasonable gun-related conclusion, one point that needs to be addressed is what are your usual ranges? Are you in the southeast where its good luck seeing more then 150 yards in the woods or are you in the wide open plains where 20-mile 360 visibility is the norm? That's going to dictate a lot of your choice.

Also, FN FAL. 2.5 MOA will get you hits on man sized targets to 500 yards, AK-level reliability, and a proven record as the go-to battle rifle of the world. The PTR91 GI isn't bad either and about $500-800 cheaper. Both will reach out to touch, and both will keep on chugging.

 

[Kachok]

If WROL means the same thing as SHTF, you are going to think long and hard about taking potshots at 500 yards mostly because you will no longer be a reliable source of ammo to restock your supplies.

30-06 is easy to resupply even now, 30-06 never did sell out like 308 did, 270 Win is pretty easy to find too.

 

[OneWound]

How about a Serbu Shorty shotgun? Its a bit bigger then a handgun, light, can handle bird shot to get food (squirrels and rabbits) and buck shot and slugs for social situations or bagging a bigger quarry (deer). Plus, if its a real WROL/SHTF I think you'll be spending more time avoiding getting into firefights, then you will be shooting your way to glory. Really, what survival benefit exists in shooting at someone who is 500 yards away?

This is on top of other considerations such as food, water, shelter, and medical care. Ammo can't keep you warm at night, it can't quench your thirst, and while it can help to put food in your belly, its otherwise inedible.

So, to bring this back to a reasonable gun-related conclusion, one point that needs to be addressed is what are your usual ranges? Are you in the southeast where its good luck seeing more then 150 yards in the woods or are you in the wide open plains where 20-mile 360 visibility is the norm? That's going to dictate a lot of your choice.

Also, FN FAL. 2.5 MOA will get you hits on man sized targets to 500 yards, AK-level reliability, and a proven record as the go-to battle rifle of the world. The PTR91 GI isn't bad either and about $500-800 cheaper. Both will reach out to touch, and both will keep on chugging.

Most of it is hills that span roughly 400-500 yard apart. There are some places where there are trees, but mostly it's fields.

 

[OneWound]

To everyone: I already own a 5.56 AR, AK-47, 30-06 bolt, K-31 (still coming in), etc. Just trying to make everything perfect. I'm also in the process getting everything else, but because of personal things I'm not able to go out to a professional trainer. But I will find a book or something to go by.

 

[Dr T]

The last time I checked, 300 Win. Mag. was available in a BAR. It just doesn't look tacticool. It has had some interesting use as a sniper round.

 

[Cee Zee]

It really hasn't been made clear (that I saw anyway) whether the OP is wanting to put food on the table or defend the farm from crop stealing grasshopper (you remember the ant and the grasshopper story). For game he will most certainly want a larger round than a .223 type round. For stopping bad guys a .223 could do the job quite well IMO. As for carrying around an AR that shoots .308 almost all of them are heavy firearms. The ones I've seen go close to 12 pounds without ammo. And when we talk semi-auto they only have a few rounds compared to a semi-auto .223.

But to me that wouldn't even really matter at the kind of distance the OP mentioned. A good bolt gun can be aimed and shot nearly as fast as a semi-auto .308 at that range. Aiming is the part that takes up the time. And a .308 requires more time to reacquire the target than a .223 does. These are the things that caused our military to move to the .223 platform.

IMO it should be about finding a single rifle that does a number of things well. It should fire quickly and accurately and it shouldn't weigh more than an average guy can carry around all day. And keep in mind that we're looking at a much older average shooter than your average miltary long range shooter.

All I can say is that I have made my choices for the scenario listed. I'm part owner of a farm in a remote location that's capable of producing food for everyone that is part owner and their families. I have the rifles I would use to protect my food source, and that would be the major concern. If someone comes to me asking for food that's one thing. I'll be able to help them most likely. But thieves tend to take everything they can. That can't be tolerated in a WROL scenario. These things aren't even usually discussed here BTW because the chances of those situations actually occurring is quite low thank goodness. But should it actually happen my farm is almost perfect for a defensible setup. A large hill overlooks all of our tillable land and most of our grazing land. The longest shot would be about 550 yards. And I have a rifle quite capable of putting bullets where I want them at that distance. I actually wanted a .308 to fill that role but ended up with a .223 because I found a really good one at a really good price. I would not expect it to fail at doing it's intended job. First off because it is downhill to pretty much every location I would be shooting and second because larger bullets have been shown to have the knock down power needed out to almost exactly the distance I would need to cover. And even better, the vast majority of my shots would be within 450 yards. The 600 yard shots would be rare and not as important.

We've actually seen a situation develop because of trespassers wanting to ride their ATV's across our land and our neighbor's land with their primary goal being to set up tree stands and harvest deer from our two farms. My cousin confronted those people and made it clear they weren't welcome. He lives on the farm. His house was shot up by another high power rifle from another hill with a view of our farm. That hill is about 500 yards from the main hill where I would set up and it is lower than the main hill too. I don't want to brag here but I can stick a bullet in a person on that hill from my location and that kind of a shot will be effective against a human. I know center mass is the choice for a reason. But I can make that shot if I need to do so. I certainly don't expect to be shooting at anyone ever in my life from that hill but my family hs counted on that location for right at 200 years now and I don't think we're going to give it up easily should really bad times come.

Keep in mind that during the great depression there was very little problems with such things so I would only expect to see real problems in a situation much worse than the great depression. I have other reasons for wanting to protect that farm from bad guys including the lunatic that tried to get a court to give him a right of way across our property. That guy is a known, violent felon that cut at least one person's throat and bragged about killing another person to my cousin. And he probably was telling the truth. Did I mention he's the best shooter I ever met? Because of that I bought my long range rifle and learned to shoot it well. He made no effort to hide his threats toward us at the time of that lawsuit. But he lost the case a few years ago and his health is supposedly failing (40 years of staying drunk will do that to you) and now he doesn't even own the property he wanted access to. He was in prison for a good while too and I really don't know if he's out yet. But even as a drunk with failing health I'd suspect him of being a great shooter still. I saw him do some amazing things a few decades back when we were still friends.

I do realize I can't set up on that hill and take pot shots at that guy BTW. I don't even live in the area now and he would never find me where I'm at. But there was a real threat for a while. Even then I wasn't waiting for him except that I was waiting for him to actually start shooting at my family members. If he had done that I might have found that I needed to setup to protect the people using the family farm. The LEO's just can't be everywhere at once in a place the one where I grew up (which is where the farm is).

At any rate I do trust my .223 to get the job done simply because it is so accurate. It's a bolt action BTW. I have a 30.06 bolt action too but it isn't nearly as accurate. It could be if I put some money into it I suppose but I think the .223 will do what I need and that includes covering the fields from the high ground in a WROL type scenario. I also have a semi-auto, detachable mag type carbine to deal with shorter range conflicts. The trick is to have the right weapon available at the right time I guess. I'd like to have one rifle that would do it all but those are rare IMO.

 

[OneWound]

And keep in mind that we're looking at a much older average shooter than your average miltary long range shooter

Cee Zee, are you assuming I'm an older shooter? Ha. Anyways, your land set up is about roughly the same as mine. Also, the rifle I'm looking at is not for defending property, but getting from point A to point B safely. What terrain am I going to take and what situation will I be in? I'll wait until that happens and let the situation dictate what I'll do. Until then, I'd like to have every situation imaginable covered so there is more of a chance that one of the situations I have prepared for happens, if it at all happens. BTW for me, I have a 30-06 that is lighter then I'd like..w/o a bipod on the end of it.

 

[ORHunter79]

To everyone: I already own a 5.56 AR, AK-47, 30-06 bolt, K-31 (still coming in), etc. Just trying to make everything perfect. I'm also in the process getting everything else, but because of personal things I'm not able to go out to a professional trainer. But I will find a book or something to go by.

Then I think your well set up. Between the AK and AR you pretty well covered. My recommendation is stock up on parts and ammo. I like to pick one rifle and stick with it, practicing as much as I can afford. For me the AR is perfect. I used to hate it, but it just makes too much sense. Parts are relatively cheap and avail. You can harvest game at moderate distances, 200 or less. You can attach a number of different optics.
I understand folks may believe that it won't kill a deer clean, but it will as long as you place the shot well and know your limits. One example

http://youtu.be/eqBLoTSLQO0


Good luck!

 

[VaGunNut]

30/06. Noreen makes a semi-auto in this caliber for about 1700.00 and it has a detachable magazine so you can change out various bullet combinations as the situation dictates. It is built on a long action ar platform. Hard to beat an 06 in North America, very versatile and time proven.