Best Concealable High Cap Defense Piece, .357, .40 or .45ACP?

[4Freedom]

Hi, I am going handgun shopping. I am thinking I will try to rent some at one of our ranges eventually . I doubt I will try the gun I want and may have to just bet my money that the gun I buy will shoot as good as it feels in my hand. What I like to know is what people's opinions are for a great carrry gun that is concealable. I am not talking pocket guns here, so please dont say Kahr , Kel-Tec, Ruger LCP. I will be also looking to get one of those in the future. What I like to know is what is a very powerful gun, that is powerful enough to stop a black bear or a human and has a high round capacity and is not super large in size.

I will say right away I don't like the feeling of glocks or Rugers, so please dont mention those. I am leaning towards Smith and Wesson M&P, which seems to be my favortie grip. Also, I like the feelings of Springfields, FNs, and Sig Sauers, but I am open to other gun ideas.

Some told me that .357 is the most powerful and lightweight round. What are people's opinions of carryign a .357 versus a .45ACP for protection? The one drawback I see with .45's is taht they have low bullet capacity. Of course, they have a big punch which is good and may be needed against attacks in forest , from wild animals. The .357 I hear is more powerful than the .45ACP, is that true or false? I don't really understand ballistics and I am new to guns, so I need people's genuine advice.

I have to admit, I woudl like to have a gun on me with lots of rounds. I am even thinking I can carry two guns. I am around 5,9 and 215-225 lbs, bit heftier frame for my height, I am not fat. I am not sure, but I think I could conceal a bigger piece, but would feel better with a smaller one.

I saw a real nice .357 Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rounder , which seem to fit real nice in my hand for being double stack frame:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...angId=-1&parent_category_rn=15711&isFirearm=Y

Heres the compact model, however even the full size one is not so big:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...angId=-1&parent_category_rn=15711&isFirearm=Y

Really, I love how this gun feels and I hope it shoots just as well. Any people have any opinions on S&W M&P guns?

I am not sure however whether .357 is the best caliber to get, so perhaps I would go with the same model in .45ACP. I am not sure the mag capacity, but it must be like 10+1 or something.


Also, another gun I really loved to hold and felt nice was the FN. What would many people say about an FN against a S&W, Springfield or a Sig?

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF046&gid=FNG001&mid=FNM0126

The FN Model seems to be a bit more compact, but still has the same capacity as the S&W, but not much a difference.


I am eager to hear people's opinions.

 

[Bill_Rights]

There are two .357 pistol calibers, .357 Magnum and .357 SIG. You don't want a .357 Mag in a smallish gun for carry self-defense (rapid accurate 2nd, 3rd, etc. shot, in case 1st misses) unless you are a world master - the recoil is too great to control. Also overpenetration and collateral damage are a problem.

The .357 SIG is a good possible self-defense round. The FN you link to is .357 SIG. The bullet itself is the same diameter as in the 9 x 19mm parabellum round, but the brass casing is bigger in diameter towards the casing rim, giving a wider range of powder loads with ultimately higher energy than the 9mm. With appropriate expanding bullet (jacketed hollow point designed for the projectile velocity - others weigh in?) it is an excellent, accepted round for one-shot stopping of human assailants. Against large bears, alligators, etc. forget it.

I have the FNP-45 ACP pistol. Either 14+1 or 15+1 double-stack mag. Polymer frame so the grips are not too large. I can highly recommend the current series of FN "service size" pistols. A bit bulky for carry, but possible. I saw a thread somewhere about FNP-45 for carry. If I find it again, I'll post a link to it on this thread.
Bill

 

[burningsquirrels]

you really want that many rounds? you don't need two guns, just reload. the 40 is a good compromise between 9 and 45... and is more commong than 357sig or other fancy calibers... so get anything in 40 that carries at least 15 and two magazines.

what are you doing, park ranger in a demilitarized zone?

 

[geronimo509]

im pretty sure that 45 acp for big, wild animals is not good. but its great for humans. my only experience with high cap guns are the XD45 and my para gun rights model. i carry my para almost everyday, and with it being double stacked its really not that big of a grip. its 14 +1 of 45acp. i only carry it with 13 + 1 but it has been 100% reliable.

 

[Mello]

4Freedom

Best Concealable High Cap Defense Piece, .357, .40 or .45ACP?
Hi, I am going handgun shopping. I am thinking I will try to rent some at one of our ranges eventually . I doubt I will try the gun I want and may have to just bet my money that the gun I buy will shoot as good as it feels in my hand. What I like to know is what people's opinions are for a great carrry gun that is concealable. I am not talking pocket guns here, so please dont say Kahr , Kel-Tec, Ruger LCP. I will be also looking to get one of those in the future. What I like to know is what is a very powerful gun, that is powerful enough to stop a black bear or a human and has a high round capacity and is not super large in size.

When you throw in the requirement to stop a bear you really raise the bar. Even a 22 rimfire can kill a bear. It might take a week or so but ta bear can die from being shot by a 22 rimfire. So we are not talking about killing, but stopping in a short time period. I assume a few seconds from the time the bear is shot to the time it is incapacitated.

I would not expect any of the round you listed to do the job. Even the 10mm with a 200gr bullet at 1250fps would be under powered in my estimation.

A 300 pound black bear is tougher to stop than a 300 pound man. I would think a 44 magnum with heavy cast bullets or FMJ would be the minimum. I know of no guns made for that round or a more powerful round that fall within your parameters for concealability and/or high round capacity.

The closest I can think of is a 10mm double stack semi-auto. There are several manufacturers.

 

[4Freedom]

Ok, I see I will need two differnet guns for urban and rural environment. In the woods, I want the most power handgun available. IN the city, Iwant the most effective and easiest to conceal. High round cap would be important in either environment, but more powerful rounds I know usually have less cap. I am trying to see if I can get the best of both worlds to save money, but I know that is rarely possible. I would just stick to pepper spray for bears, but wanted a backup in case it fails to work. I only have money for two guns and cannot spend anymore than $1300. My goal is to get two good guns for this amount. Perhaps I like one I could easily conceal and another that packs the punch and may be a bit bigger, but not too noticeable.

I may also go and look for a used Kel Tec as a pocket gun, although I would like to invest in a Kahr or Ruger LCP in the future.

 

[Bill_Rights]

.40S&W vs .357SIG

4Freedom,
Burningsquirrels is correct: The .40S&W is more commonly available than .357SIG. Also has a slightly bigger slug, for stopping. Also, with +P powder loads has a range of bullet energy/momentum.

.40S&W pistols are easier to find, particularly in the FNPs you and I both like, at least in the USA.

BTW, you can get any FNP, with storage case and extra mags for < $600. So you can afford two for < $1300. FNH USA pistols are cheaper than most given their technical capabilities. I guess that's FN's market positioning because they are a less popular name and these are no-frills police/military-issue sidearms, a part of FN's "schtick", if you look at the rest of the products they offer. That said, I actually like that aspect of FN's market positioning: all-business weapons and no hint of "custom" elitism or ego. If they are good enough for our "thin blue line" and for "our nation's finest", they're good enough for me.

 

[jackdanson]

I may also go and look for a used Kel Tec as a pocket gun, although I would like to invest in a Kahr or Ruger LCP in the future.

The LCP is an almost duplicate copy of the keltec p3at.

I'd get the .45 over the .357 sig. Mostly because availability. Get a nice .45 and the keltec, carry the .45 on days you can conceal it, the keltec for shorts n tshirt days.

I wouldn't worry about stopping bears, just avoid them. Use the .45 if you have to. I backpacked for years around blackbears with nothing more than a 3 inch knife, they aren't ruthless people eating machines. You are more likely to get killed on a sunday afternoon drive.

 

[71Commander]

Para P12 (OFFICER SIZE 12+1)

http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=121646051

P13 (cOMMANDER SIZE 14+1)

http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=121757635