LibertySympathizer
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*If* you didn't have good JHP defensive rounds, and had to use a handgun with FMJ's, which caliber would have the best "stopping power"
"Best" FMJ SD Caliber
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Just my non-scientific opinion for a semi-auto that weighs less than 40 oz.
.45 ACP
.45 ACP
MICHAEL T
Member
1911 45 auto of course
svaz
Member
Anecdotally speaking (on targets other than flesh & blood), you'd want a lighter, faster, round for any given caliber. You'd get more energy up front and it would dissipate more quickly into your target whereas a bigger, slower, round would punch through your target wasting energy into whatever was behind your target.
I believe this is the theory behind most Cor-Bon rounds (very light, very fast).
I use 9mm so I'd go w/ 115gr. loaded to +P (maybe a European brand?) as I don't think there is a +P+ FJM.
This assumes, of course, that you are engaging a target w/ little or no protection (heavy jackets, through windshields, etc.).
I believe this is the theory behind most Cor-Bon rounds (very light, very fast).
I use 9mm so I'd go w/ 115gr. loaded to +P (maybe a European brand?) as I don't think there is a +P+ FJM.
This assumes, of course, that you are engaging a target w/ little or no protection (heavy jackets, through windshields, etc.).
LibertySympathizer
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I was thinking .45 ACP but I'm never been up to speed on revolver cartridges.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
LS, about the only FMJ revolver ammo I come across regularly is .38 Special practice ammo. Otherwise it tends to be lead or JHP for revolvers around these parts.
Gryffydd
Member
Ah yes, much more effective than the same cartridge in any of dozens of other firearms with the same barrel length...
So if you made the bigger slower round even slower so that it didn't create two exterior holes, it would be more effective? Because you know, less penetration means more effectiveness.
REAPER4206969
Member
The truncated cone bullet of the .40S&W is as good as FMJ gets.
Sheepdog1968
Member
Almost 20 years ago I had a police office tell me "big bullets make holes". As such, I'm going with the 45 ACP. FWIW, pistol calibers pale in comparison to long arms.
svaz
Member
Yes, and if it simply fell out of the barrel one would kill every soul on the block.
In simple terms, the kinetic energy of a 115gr. 9mm @ 1150fps is nearly equal to a .45ACP at twice the weight but going only 75% as fast.
115gr @ 1150fps = 337ft-lbs
230gr @ 850fps = 369ft-lbs
Better ALL that energy should be spent in the target.
Do the calcs yourself.
Any I don't think there's been a human body yet born that is going to stop a bullet from reaching the vitals provided you put the bullet where it's supposed to go.
Gryffydd
Member
That does seem to be your logic.
Why? The damage is done by the bullet, not energy. (We're talking .45acp/9mm, not .300 Weatherby or a ray gun) If it completely penetrates the target it means it has come into contact with and damaged more flesh than if it fails to penetrate. I don't care of it is still carrying 3,000 ft. lbs of energy when it exits* as it has already done its job.
The only place where complete penetration means something is wrong is when it's due to a failure of the bullet to perform, i.e. an expanding bullet that didn't expand.
Answer me this: If 115gr @ 337ft. lbs is better than 230gr @ 369ft lbs, is it better than
A. 115gr @ 500 ft. lbs
B. 230gr @ 1200ft. lbs
C. both
D. neither
E. Not enough information because it's not defined whether A or B completely penetrates the target.
I prefer this one, much more useful.
http://billstclair.com/energy.html
*excluding liability concerns of over-penetration in a crowded environment of course.
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svaz
Member
Yet, I don't think anyone here is going to prefer a meat skewer they can shove through and through to some piddly 9mm.
Energy is a factor, albeit not the only factor. And so that this is not about 9mm vs. .45, I would keep 185gr/1150fps (543ft-lbs) rounds in my 1911 had I not sold it.
The OP asked for opinions now he has two to think about.
Gryffydd
Member
I would still appreciate an answer to my question. It's even multiple choice, shouldn't be hard.
Of course not, a meat skewer isn't even a ranged weapon
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Since a FMJ bullet will not expand to make a bigger hole in what you are shooting you might as well start with a bullet that's already big, like the .45 Auto/.45 Colt. Better to put a .451"-.452" hole in the bad guy instead of a .355" or smaller one. (I added the .45 Colt because I'm a revolver guy)
This is the best answer so far, assuming that EFMJ rounds count.
However, if the rounds have to be "hardball" FMJ, then it is interesting how opinions here suddenly appear to shift more toward .45 ACP and away from 9mm than usual, because even with JHP rounds .45 ACP will expand to a larger absolute diameter, poking wider holes in targets like it usually does.
I guess that above a certain threshold, some people stop caring. Is this an accurate observation or is everybody actually "sticking to their guns," so to speak?Personally, I still have a slight preference for .40 S&W's balance of bullet diameter, penetration of barriers, capacity, and overall versatility, although it's not as if we're talking about huge differences here.
MCgunner
Member
None. FMJ sux.
Actually, ain't a lot of difference in the calibers and what little difference there is is where bigger is better actually makes a little sense. However, I'd probably carry the same guns I carry with hollowpoints cause I can't pocket my .45ACP. That'd be .380 on rare occasion, 9x18 Mak, 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Special.
I think I'd tend to the 9x18 over the parabellum as I think that round would have way excessive penetration and I wouldn't want that liability. 9x18 would have good penetration without endangering grandma down the street in her wheelchair. If it fully penetrates as I'm sure it would, it'd work just about as well as 9x19 or even .45ACP in ball ammo. Its major advantage over .45 is I'd have it with me when the SHTF.
Actually, ain't a lot of difference in the calibers and what little difference there is is where bigger is better actually makes a little sense. However, I'd probably carry the same guns I carry with hollowpoints cause I can't pocket my .45ACP. That'd be .380 on rare occasion, 9x18 Mak, 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Special.
I think I'd tend to the 9x18 over the parabellum as I think that round would have way excessive penetration and I wouldn't want that liability. 9x18 would have good penetration without endangering grandma down the street in her wheelchair. If it fully penetrates as I'm sure it would, it'd work just about as well as 9x19 or even .45ACP in ball ammo. Its major advantage over .45 is I'd have it with me when the SHTF.
Biggest, heaviest jacketed flat point available.
45 LC
45 ACP
etc.
45 LC
45 ACP
etc.
Jim Watson
Member
There are nine posts here recommending .45 caliber.
Ten counting mine.
So that is the leading answer, if not the only answer.
If you get into gun issues, because a Colt Commander kicks too much, or a S&W M22 is too big to carry, the answer might change. My .32 and .380 get FMJ because of feeding reliability and better penetration to the vitals that a low powered expanding bullet might lack.
From 1903 to 1983, there were efforts to make 9mm P FMJ more effective by flattening the nose, as seen in the early truncated cone load and the USAF/Hornady design. But feed reliability trumps impact and the roundnose always won out.
An early and not much quoted report by C.M. Peters came up with a recommendation for a 135 gr FMJ SWC at 1100 fps - 9mm P or .38 ACP ballistics. More powerful loads with heavier bullets or higher velocites were rejected because of heavier recoil hurting accuracy by the moderately experienced shooter. A hard SWC was favored over hollowpoints because of better penetration but still giving a better impact effect than roundnose.
You can prove about anything if you get to specify the test conditions and criteria.
moxie
Member
.45 ACP. It's also the best revolver round in the S&W 625 or 325, except, of course, for the .45 AR. Then there's the .45 Super. That vote for the ".50GI" is very interesting. LOL
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