Best out of the box AR for around $1k

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Very true my friends, I do not think they could or would ever compare to what we shoot and the reason for this nice thread here. But I figured it could be a good "minute of beer can" gun not something I would take to Gunsite with me. BTW gents a guy came into the shop I part time at with an M&P that he bought off a Soldier about 6months ago and said it had all these problems and the stock was broke and wouldn't shoot. I shot him a low offer and he took it!!!! So I tore apart the poor Smith and probably gave it, it's first cleaning ever (I've seen guns that went on a deployment that weren't nearly as bad as this) I had to brake apart the 6position stock that was on it and replaced it with an old one we had laying around. I ran a mag through it about 30mins ago and it ran flawless, probably going to sell it for $600.
 
proven said:
sorry, but the midlength gas system offers no inherrant mechanical accuracy over the carbine gas system. some would argue that the slightly longer sight radius improves accuracy, but it's minimal at best, and only applies to irons.

less dwell time and slightly smoother cycling are the only real benefits.
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You are right my friend, there is no "inherrant mechanical" accuracy in a mid-length gas system, accuracy isn't mechanical all by itself. It's mechanical and fundamentals that get you accuracy. A sub MOA gun is useless to a person who can't shoot sub MOA. With a mid-length I can go 15rds in an 8" plate in a few seconds, with carbine length my best is 12rds in 10.5" in the same time. So to me my friend thats better accuracy. All I was trying to say.
 
I'll agree that a mid length gas system will allow you to shoot fast more accurately, if that makes sense. For me, I think it's due to two reasons. The slightly smoother shooting helps, but I also like being able to get my off hand farther out on the handguard to better steer the rifle.

I think I've also found a nice side effect to the mid length gas system. That's when shooting steel cased ammo. Of course, this is only based on my experiences and based on observation, but I've found that the majority of guys having trouble with steel cases getting stuck in the chamber are running carbine length gas systems. In most of these rifles, I've been able to get them to run more reliably by retarding the timing a bit. Sometimes this meant going to a full auto bolt and/or a heavier buffer. In an couple of cases I used adjustable gas blocks, but I really don't like these. Not the ones I've used anyway. The best fix was to install a barrel what was cut to spec.

In any case, the conclusion that I came to was that the cases were getting stuck because the rifles were overgassed a bit and extraction was starting before the case could contract. I suppose that running a barrel with a gas port that it a bit oversized in conjunction with the high pressures at which a carbine runs could result in stuck cases. I've found that the problem is far less prevalent with mid length gas systems, due to the lesser amount of dwell time/lower pressure.

Like I said, it's just an observation. I could be wrong.
 
I burn thru about 12k myself. I only have one midlength AR though. The others are all rifle or carbine.

I also don't shoot steel cased ammo out of mine. I'm a reloader, I don't have anything against steel (other than I can't reload it). So I have no comparative to the function using anything but brass cased ammo.
 
TonyAngel said:
I think I've also found a nice side effect to the mid length gas system. That's when shooting steel cased ammo. Of course, this is only based on my experiences and based on observation, but I've found that the majority of guys having trouble with steel cases getting stuck in the chamber are running carbine length gas systems. In most of these rifles, I've been able to get them to run more reliably by retarding the timing a bit. Sometimes this meant going to a full auto bolt and/or a heavier buffer. In an couple of cases I used adjustable gas blocks, but I really don't like these. Not the ones I've used anyway. The best fix was to install a barrel what was cut to spec.

In any case, the conclusion that I came to was that the cases were getting stuck because the rifles were overgassed a bit and extraction was starting before the case could contract. I suppose that running a barrel with a gas port that it a bit oversized in conjunction with the high pressures at which a carbine runs could result in stuck cases. I've found that the problem is far less prevalent with mid length gas systems, due to the lesser amount of dwell time/lower pressure.

Like I said, it's just an observation. I could be wrong.
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That may be an isolated event in your case. I have used and still use steel-cased Tula ammo on all my Carbine AR's with no issues.
 
justice, what barrels are you running on your ARs?

I'm not talking about an isolated incident. I've worked on plenty of ARs. I didn't say that all carbines suffer from the problem. My current rifle is a carbine and eats steel cased ammo as well as anything else.

I only said, or meant to say, that when I did see the problem manifest itself, it was usually with a carbine.
 
KC, just wondering do you have carbine length handguards (on your carbine) or do you mid-length-rifle length. I was just thinking I've only owned 1 carbine length gas that I had longer handguards on.
 
TonyAngel said:
justice, what barrels are you running on your ARs?

I'm not talking about an isolated incident. I've worked on plenty of ARs. I didn't say that all carbines suffer from the problem. My current rifle is a carbine and eats steel cased ammo as well as anything else.

I only said, or meant to say, that when I did see the problem manifest itself, it was usually with a carbine.
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I have used Spikes, Bushmaster, PSA, even Rguns which is a low-end upper. All of them work just fine. I do keep my rifles pretty clean and maintained.
 
Carbine length on the carbines.

I can see the midlength being quicker between transitions, I just don't think I take advantage of it, or it just isn't a difference that has any effect on me. I don't think it really speeds me up at all, but I haven't really timed it either. I only take advantage of about one inch of the handguard on the midlength, so maybe it's my failing.


Still don't see any appreciable drop in recoil, accuracy, or function between them, but maybe I'm just not sensitive to it.
 
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kcshooter said:
Carbine length on the carbines.

I can see the midlength being quicker between transitions, I just don't think I take advantage of it, or it just isn't a difference that has any effect on me. I don't think it really speeds me up at all, but I haven't really timed it either. I only take advantage of about one inch of the handguard on the midlength, so maybe it's my failing.


Still don't see any appreciable drop in recoil, accuracy, or function between them, but maybe I'm just not sensitive to it.
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I never did either until I started shooting double digit rounds accurately (in under 2secs) I don't believe it will make smaller groups @100m or anything like that. I enjoy it more for failure drills (2 to the chest 1 to the head) controlled pairs and move n' shoot.
 
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