GCMkc
Member
Arsenal and milled. Stamped receivers are good to go as well. I have an SLR-101s and it's a great rifle. In terms of function my WASR/10 was just as good as the Arsenal but the fit/finish was below that of the Arsenal.
Best Overall AK on the Market
- Thread starter WALKERs210
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fireside44
member
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I have a little experience with AK's and here is what I have determined. Nearly any AK that fires and feeds will also be dead reliable. However, quality control is another matter. Canted gas blocks, canted sights, sights that require adjustment to make up for canted sight blocks, sloppy magwells, mag release in need of work, etc etc. All this crap is commonplace. No big deal if you can examine the weapon pre-purchase but buying sight unseen you never know what you might get. You could find a great cheapo WASR that is as good as any high dollar AK out there or you can get one that looks like it was assembled by someone who was blacked out when they put it together.
Here are my recommendations for models and manufacturers
Krebs
Saiga conversion (I have a Century conversion that is as good as any AK, take that!)
Polytech
Arizona Response Systems
Arsenal
VEPR
I have seen these weapons and they consistently seem to have straight gas blocks, straight sights, and function flawless right out of the box. Flawless function from the box seems to be sorely lacking in today's gun market. Pathetic. It's nice to rip the sucker open and have at it without having a "break in period" excuse from the manufacturer or have to return it for work. Nothing irritates me more.
Totally disagree. The early models had lots of problems, the newer Swiss stock equipped models are quickly developing an excellent reputation.
Ar180shooter
Member
Agreed. It's a shame that initial manufacturing issues have damaged the reputation of a well designed rifle.
dcarch
Member
I have a converted Saiga, and I absolutely love it. It's accurate, reliable, and fit my needs well. That being said, that's simply my experience. YMMV. 
krinko
Member
I love me some 5.45x39 rifles---
And the Arsenal converted SAIGA is right up there with the rest, a Plum that will never turn into a Prune*---
-----krinko
* Like a SIG 556, for instance.
And the Arsenal converted SAIGA is right up there with the rest, a Plum that will never turn into a Prune*---
-----krinko
* Like a SIG 556, for instance.
That's my experience as well.
A well-converted Saiga is hard to beat, whether it comes from Arsenal, or is a "home-brew" like mine. It's a real Izhmash-made Russian AK with a tough chrome-lined hammer-forged barrel and the product improvements of the AK-100-series line. The bolt-hold-open is a nice little feature most AKs don't have. There's not much that's not to like. The finish (a baked-on black paint-like finish over what looks like a very thin grey parkerization) is quite tough, but not that pretty. On a more subjective matter, some folks just have to have a milled receiver (and I agree the weight helps soak up a little more recoil), even though stamped receivers are just as tough (and supposedly have a longer service life per Russian service manuals). Personally, I'll take the lighter weight of the Saiga receiver.
Doing the conversion yourself is a great way to learn the ins and outs of the rifle. I'm not terribly mechanically-inclined, but was able to the do the conversion in a Saturday afternoon. Here is my 7.62x39mm Saiga.
It started life as this (stock photo of Saiga IZ-132):
I converted it to this:
About the only thing I still might do with it is thread the barrel for a muzzle brake (even though recoil is not bad at all).
.
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Hokkmike
Member
Chinese. Milled may be more accurate but stamped are more durable and have a longer service life.
InkEd
Member
Arsenal
Cryogaijin
Member
My vote for factory guns would go to the super VEPR.
For reworked, Saigas.
For reworked, Saigas.
DCP
Member
Arsenal is a great rifle.
PGT
Member
My Saiga 308 Version 21 came converted from the factory and was functional but not as nicely made as my Sig 556. That said, 308 is nice but one of the benefits of the AK is the ability to buy cheap ammunition (which 308 isn't). If I had it to do over again, I'd have gotten the 5.45x39 variant.
bigdaa
member
Bulgarian Arsenal vintage 1994, Milled.
Hungarian SA-85
Hungarian SA-85
Saiga, VEPR, or Bulgarian SLR line are at the top. I would also say Krebs, but they are a custom gun builder, so I don't think it's really fair to include them. They tend to be the most consistently put together AK lines with the best new components.
My vote goes to the Molot Vepr. It's based on an RPK receiver which should be stronger than that of the Saiga and most other AKs.
There are several high-end versions such as the Vepr Hunter (available in .30-06) or Vepr Super (550 mm bull barrel). Some time ago, a Sporter version with a 620 mm barrel was offered here in Germany, and apparently, there's even a "sniper" configuration with a 700mm barrel:
http://www.shotgunnews.com/2011/10/26/new-molot-products-debut-for-the-u-s-market-the-sniper-vepr/
I thought about getting a Vepr Super or Sporter, but then went for an Izhmash Tigr instead.
There are several high-end versions such as the Vepr Hunter (available in .30-06) or Vepr Super (550 mm bull barrel). Some time ago, a Sporter version with a 620 mm barrel was offered here in Germany, and apparently, there's even a "sniper" configuration with a 700mm barrel:
http://www.shotgunnews.com/2011/10/26/new-molot-products-debut-for-the-u-s-market-the-sniper-vepr/
I thought about getting a Vepr Super or Sporter, but then went for an Izhmash Tigr instead.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
+1
For the life of me I can't figure out why people want milled receiver AKs. They just add needless weight and expense. They don't make the platform any more reliable or accurate. My Saiga has had one jam over the course of probably 7k rounds in the past 4 years (and it was mag related). It's not a precision rifle, with that big heavy piston and bolt carrier flying back and forth the added metal in the receiver doesn't mean squat.
Also, the Tapco G2 trigger in mine is awesome. It is 10 times better than the factory trigger in my M92, it is also better than many ARs. I had them both out at the range today, and had forgotten how good the Tapco is.
GunsBlazing
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Hey Fishbed77 -- If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to convert your Saiga? It looks great! That's exactly the route I'm looking to go.
Averageman
Member
I would love to find another SKS that took AK magazines.
Although heavy it would seem to be the best of both worlds and rock solid.
I own two Saiga's and I'm happy with both.
Although heavy it would seem to be the best of both worlds and rock solid.
I own two Saiga's and I'm happy with both.
I used a conversion kit from Carolina Shooters Supply (CSS) to do the basic conversion (relocate trigger, new FCG, new stock & pistol grip). It was about $140 (they do have less expensive ones available with Tapco stocks, but I wanted the higher-quality Kvar stock). The bullet guide kit to take AK mags was about $20. Add in a few tools (center punch, die handle to tap the bullet guide screw, etc.) and my basic conversion cost ~$175.
To do the forearm conversion, I used a bolt-on handguard retainer from CSS, rather than a normal press-on AK retainer, along with a Kvar US-made handguard (so 922(r) will allow a foreign muzzle attachment if I ever decide to add one). The bolt-on handguard retainer is a seriously over-priced part at $50, but it works very well. The handguard was ~$50, but less expensive Russian or Bulgarian ones are available for around $30, and they are practically identical. You will also need an AK gas tube (~$40). So you are looking at $120-150 for the forearm conversion I did.
FYI - the stock Saiga forearm is actually quite nice, so you are not really missing out on anything if you decide to keep it rather than going with an AK forearm set. It has no heatguards, but it is a rather beefy piece that mitigates heat quite well, and offers a much longer surface to grip. Many folks elect to keep the Saiga forearm and save money here.
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Okiegunner
Member
I will admit that I do have a prejudice.
For consistent quality every time....Arsenal!!
Fit, finish, trigger, etc.
I currently own a SGL21, SAM7k, and a Waffen Werks 74'. I have previously owned a SAM7-A1R.
BTW, the Waffen Werks (Bulgarian kit built) is a very nice rifle. Arguably as nice as an Arsenal SLRr.
For consistent quality every time....Arsenal!!
Fit, finish, trigger, etc.
I currently own a SGL21, SAM7k, and a Waffen Werks 74'. I have previously owned a SAM7-A1R.
BTW, the Waffen Werks (Bulgarian kit built) is a very nice rifle. Arguably as nice as an Arsenal SLRr.
SabbathWolf
member
Just bought a new SGL31-68 today on-line.
Probably won't be here for another week or so.
But I figure I may as well have a stamped gun to go with my milled gun.
lol....
Probably won't be here for another week or so.
But I figure I may as well have a stamped gun to go with my milled gun.
lol....
fatcat4620
Member
Nice AKs are like nice pickup trucks. The scratches hurt a lot more when you use them for their intended purpose. A WASR also cleans up nice with a little stock refinish and some VHT paint.
JustinJ
Member
The differentce is that unlike many AR accessories, a milled AK receiver adds weight but no improved function. If one really needs to reduce an AK's recoil the 74 style muzzle brake is a much better option than an extra pound and a half of unnecessary steel.
To the OP, any Arsenal is good to go, Russian or Bulgarian. I'd highly recomend sticking with a stamped receiver. The Arsenal stamped rifles are built in the original factories as opposed to being assembled from parts kits in the US with US made receivers. The stamped also have original Russian or Bulgarian barrels. The guns are almost identical to what those countries issue to their soldiers.
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