Best pepper spray option
- Thread starter duns
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Pepper spray is used with the intent to use just sufficient force as prevent an immediate threat. It is not the intent to cause long-term injury to the attacker's health.
Your are absolutely correct about the fact that QA/QC is much better now. That Utah study was done along time ago and the professor who conducted it had some loyalty to Sabre at the time. However, I think he did the best with what technology he had available to him at that time. That Trichloroethylene is bad stuff!
No, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't use it because it has a carcinogen. It just means that the manufacturer is required by federal law to disclose it. And, any employee (especially females that are likely to bear children) are entitled to know BEFORE it happens that they are being exposed to an ingredient that (according to the US Army Test Center) may possibly contribute to birth defects. In my opinion, any reputable aerosol spray manufacturer would willingly post their MSDS on their website in PDF format for anyone to download.
I would prefer not to use a spray containing carcinogens if an effective alternative is available. In defending myself with pepper spray, I have no intention to cause long-term health effects. I also prefer to use non-carcinogenic products generally when possible as it reduces occupational risks for those employed in manufacturing these products.
I don't know how dolphins cropped up! Personally, I want do my bit for health, safety, and the environment by avoiding carcinogens in the products I buy -- if I can. You can call it "politically correct"if you want but I'm not doing it because I feel the need to conform to anyone else but because I think it is right according to my personal sense of morality/ethics.
Oookay. If you are the passive aggressive type of forumite who is so smug and somehow feels so justified that he would prefer to use what may in some sense amount to inappropriate force (or unnecessary harm) on any "threat," then great!
Sounds ignorant to me. But type what you gotta type, guy.
Well that's nice but personally I shoot guns that use lead bullets.
Now lead is also a suspected carcinogen and a well known toxin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10940970
So are you gonna quit shooting too or buy enviromentally safe all copper bullets?
You wouldn't wanna give that poor ol' badguy lead poisoning now would you?
If this is something that feel strongly about morally/ethically then let your conscience be your guide.
Personally I just want what works best even if it may be "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen".
There's a lot of things in life that carry a certain amount of risk with them.
Good luck and be safe with whatever it is you choose.
Now lead is also a suspected carcinogen and a well known toxin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10940970
So are you gonna quit shooting too or buy enviromentally safe all copper bullets?
You wouldn't wanna give that poor ol' badguy lead poisoning now would you?
If this is something that feel strongly about morally/ethically then let your conscience be your guide.
Personally I just want what works best even if it may be "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen".
There's a lot of things in life that carry a certain amount of risk with them.
Good luck and be safe with whatever it is you choose.
Weevil, you mention "bad guys" a lot. Clearly you don't seem to recognize or at least acknowledge that thousands "good guys" such as police officers, correctional officers and military personnel are sprayed every day in training exercises. In fact, I have a friend that is an OC instructor for a large law enforcement agency in FL that has been an instructor for 12 years in his 7,000 + man police agency. He has literally been sprayed practically every day during that time period. Would you by chance have any health concerns for him or his family?
Smgrusty: Great point that I hadn't thought of. Hopefully, the police, military, and correctional facility procurement personnel are checking the MSDS (material safety data sheets) for the products they buy. If not, they should be.
Do you have any reason to think the trichloroethylene-based pepper sprays are more effective than the water-based? It is true that the solvent itself is an added irritant, but I understand that Fox increases the capsaicinoid content of its water-based spray "Mean Green" to compensate for that. Maybe other companies do something similar. My first purchase of a spray was of the Fox solvent-based variety because it was a few dollars cheaper but I will be definitely buying a water-based spray next time. No reason not to unless someone can show me it is significantly less effective.
There is no study that says Fox is more effective. In fact, quite the contrary. The most comprehensive study ever conducted on commercially available was done just a few year sago by the US Army at Aberdeen Proving Ground. Check out the below link and click on "Download the US Army test Data For Your Files). They tested 4,000 cans for 8 months.
http://www.cqbsupply.com/formtech.html
http://www.cqbsupply.com/formtech.html
MariusDP51
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I recently bought my girlfriend a small cannister of pepperspray with a belt clip to carry in her handbag and on her person. I am confident that it will give her enough time to evade danger when the need arise.
I got her the direct stream system instead of the fog delivery system because, even though accuracy becomes important, I don't want to risk her being affected by the product as well.
A nice tip I read is to fasten the seatbelt in your vehicle and then clip the cannister onto the seatbelt where your buckle clips in. This way, you can reach for it in a non-threatening/suspicious way.
I got her the direct stream system instead of the fog delivery system because, even though accuracy becomes important, I don't want to risk her being affected by the product as well.
A nice tip I read is to fasten the seatbelt in your vehicle and then clip the cannister onto the seatbelt where your buckle clips in. This way, you can reach for it in a non-threatening/suspicious way.
smgrusty, where can one purchase CQB pepper spray? I couldn't find a stockist on a quick Google search and wondered if maybe it's not available to the public.
leadcounsel
member
Yeah, the military and police would never place us in danger...
sandboxdoc1
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i'll stick with fox.. worked for me a few times on some homeless persons agressively harassing me at a gas station for a window wash.
let's actually see what the NTP's report says about Trichloroethylene.
•Trichloroethylene - Trichloroethylene is listed in the 9th Report as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen." It is used mainly as a degreaser for metal parts and at one time was used to decaffeinate coffee. The Report states the listing is based on limited findings of elevated liver and biliary tract cancer rates in occupational groups exposed to trichloroethylene and sufficient evidence of cancer formation in experimental animal studies.
And.......
It is important to understand that the Report identifies potential cancer hazards. A listing in the Report does not by itself establish that a substance presents a cancer risk to an individual in daily life.
People should not make decisions concerning the use of a given drug, or any other listed agent, based solely on the information contained in the Report.
Straight from the horse's mouth!
Read it for yourself.
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/releases/news-archive/2000/9thROC.cfm
•Trichloroethylene - Trichloroethylene is listed in the 9th Report as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen." It is used mainly as a degreaser for metal parts and at one time was used to decaffeinate coffee. The Report states the listing is based on limited findings of elevated liver and biliary tract cancer rates in occupational groups exposed to trichloroethylene and sufficient evidence of cancer formation in experimental animal studies.
And.......
It is important to understand that the Report identifies potential cancer hazards. A listing in the Report does not by itself establish that a substance presents a cancer risk to an individual in daily life.
People should not make decisions concerning the use of a given drug, or any other listed agent, based solely on the information contained in the Report.
Straight from the horse's mouth!
Read it for yourself.
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/releases/news-archive/2000/9thROC.cfm
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How aggressive were they? Did you actually spray them?
The report is just trying to present its findings in a balanced way through its qualifications. IMO if trichloroethylene is "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" as the report states, then it should be replaced with something else if a safer and effective substitute exists -- and it seems to exist because Fox themselves as well as a number of other companies produce sprays that do not contain trichloroethylene (Fox produces its "Mean Green" spray).
leadcounsel
member
If you don't think Fox Labs is effective, get sprayed with it. Then come back here and say it's not effective.
Just like anything, with TCE the dose makes the poison. Risk of cancer would only become a concern for trainers or officers who come in frequent contact with it. The civilian or ordinary officer, or BG, won't have to worry about it.
Leadcounsel, I went back and read all of the emails and did not find one (1) that said or even suggested that Fox was not effective. The issue is, does the formulation have to contain a carcinogen to be effective? And the clear answer to that NO. There are many brands available that are extremely effective without the use of a toxic chemicals.
HSO, you are correct in saying that the civilian or ordinary officer should not be concerned. However, the issue is not whether or not anyone is likely to get cancer. The primary issue (aside from effectiveness on the intended target) is the federal law that requires all employers to notify police officers & correctional officers that they are being sprayed with a carcinogen PRIOR to it happening. believe it or not, there are correctional agencies with 10,000 + employees that are spraying this stuff every day on both employees and inmates every day and it is not necessary. Also, to the issue of "effectiveness". Ingredients like ultraviolet dye (which have no burning or heat generating capacity) are simply like soybeans in hamburger meat. They are a "filler" and do not enhance or contribute to the "effectiveness" of the total formula. I get the fact that ultra-violet dye will allow an attacker to be identified later (if they can be found). But one would be much better served with a spray that does not contain any ingredients that inhibit the "active ingredient" from performing its intended function. Which by the way is simply to cause the subject/attacker to close their eyes so they can no longer see, not hurt them.
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