Best pocket gun: 9mm, Makarov, or 380 ?

[jski]

I've been struck recently by the spate of video (youtube) reviews of the Polish P-64. All have been positive, some exuberant, especially when re-springed with Wolff springs. Evidently the double action trigger pull is horrendous but with the Wolff replacement spring, all is good.

Now the P-64 would make an excellent pocket carry gun and there are many 380 that would follow suit. But when you make that step up to the 9mm, the gun needs to be a bit beefier for the higher pressures.

As for as ballistics, it seems fair to rank them accordingly: 9mm > Makarov > 380.

What pros and cons should I be considering?

 

[Sistema1927]

I carry a Kahr PM9 w/CT 9mm in my pocket in a BORAII holster.

I also have a P64, and even with new springs it has the worst recoil of any pistol I own. Truly painful. It is also too heavy, at least to me, to even consider pocket carry.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Hmmm... You bring up good points, but I wouldn't overthink it.

-9mm is "best" according to ballistics. But even the smallest 9mm are not as "pocket" as most .380 pocket guns.

-9mm Mak is pretty cool, but is limited by ammo selection.

-.380 pistol and ammo design has come a long way in the past 5 years as they both have dominated the market... look at handgun sales, most are CCW style.

I love Mak chambered guns. Super cool for those who love history, surplus guns, all steel firearms, or just trust something that is used in the Gulag. I love 9mm, but I like carrying super minimalist. .380 takes the cake for pocket carry for me.

 

[Dain Bramage]

In Soviet Russia, Makarov put you in pocket.

I have a slew of 9x18mm guns, and like them quite a lot. I even pocket carry them sometimes (P64 included). But when you talk about "best", with the Makarov you are comparing guns which stopped development in the 1980's, and ammo which stopped development shortly after. Modern .380 and 9mm gun and ammo design continues to advance to this very day.

What is the latest Makarov bullet, the Hornady FTX? Not bad, but not in the same league as current 9x19mm choices.

Also, when you say "beefy" it has different meanings for the pistols mentioned. Sure 9x19mm has higher pressures and requires a stronger barrel than 9x18mm. However, 9x18mm pistols almost exclusively have blowback actions, requiring a purposely heavy slide. Locked breech 9x19mm pistols can be made a lot lighter, even with a stronger barrel.

Basically, the choices for modern sub-compact pistols come down to 9mm for those that can deal with the recoil, and .380 for those that are recoil sensitive or want the very smallest pistols which are marginally smaller than the tiniest 9mm.

And 9x18 for hepcats and weirdos.

 

[Mn Fats]

Hmmm... You bring up good points, but I wouldn't overthink it.

-9mm is "best" according to ballistics. But even the smallest 9mm are not as "pocket" as most .380 pocket guns.

-9mm Mak is pretty cool, but is limited by ammo selection.

-.380 pistol and ammo design has come a long way in the past 5 years as they both have dominated the market... look at handgun sales, most are CCW style.

I love Mak chambered guns. Super cool for those who love history, surplus guns, all steel firearms, or just trust something that is used in the Gulag. I love 9mm, but I like carrying super minimalist. .380 takes the cake for pocket carry for me.

Well put. This mirrors my opinion.

 

[someguy2800]

But when you make that step up to the 9mm, the gun needs to be a bit beefier for the higher pressures.

That really is not true. The classic 380 and 9mm makarov options your referring to are all blowback, which necessitates a rather thick heavy slide to slow extraction. Also because they are blowback the recoil on them is just as heavy as the locked breech micro 9mm's we have today. Due to there mechanics and the metal frame with grips on the outside they are considerably bulkier than the polymer micro 9mm options on the market to. I have personally compared my LC9s to a PPK and a makarov side by side and they are bigger in every dimension and considerably heavier. An LC9s with the flush mag in a desantis pocket holster disappears in my from jean pocket.

 

[someguy2800]

The LC9s, and kahr cm9 is about as small as is practical to go in 9mm luger. Not because the gun couldn't handle it, but the human holding it could not. There is no reason you could not make a 9mm handgun the size of an LCP, but it would need about a 30 lb recoil spring to control the slide and it would be all but unmanageable to handle. So once you get smaller than that the 380 becomes the ticket. The 9mm makarov cartridge was basically just made in an effort to get a little more power than the 380 in a compact blowback auto, without having to go with a locked breech design. Now that we have very small locked breech pistols though its really lost its place in the world except in classic pistols.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

That really is not true. The classic 380 and 9mm makarov options your referring to are all blowback, which necessitates a rather thick heavy slide to slow extraction. Also because they are blowback the recoil on them is just as heavy as the locked breech micro 9mm's we have today. Due to there mechanics and the metal frame with grips on the outside they are considerably bulkier than the polymer micro 9mm options on the market to. I have personally compared my LC9s to a PPK and a makarov side by side and they are bigger in every dimension and considerably heavier. An LC9s with the flush mag in a desantis pocket holster disappears in my from jean pocket.

Well, there are many locked breech .380s.

If we take the SIG P238 and 938 for example, same design, same materials, but, of course, the 938 is a bit bigger and heavier.

For even less weight, there is the poly-framed Colt Mustang .380 XSP which is locked breech.

Even the CW380 and Beretta Pico are far smaller/lighter than any 9mm Para.

But yes, I completely agree on the blowback .380s. They may be simple and reliable, but there is a big price to pay in the recoil/weight/bulk department.

 

[jski]

Two of the better online reviews:


No mention of excessive recoil.

 

[someguy2800]

Well, there are many locked breech .380s.

If we take the SIG P238 and 938 for example, same design, same materials, but, of course, the 938 is a bit bigger and heavier.

For even less weight, there is the poly-framed Colt Mustang .380 XSP which is locked breech.

Even the CW380 and Beretta Pico are far smaller/lighter than any 9mm Para.

But yes, I completely agree on the blowback .380s. They may be simple and reliable, but there is a big price to pay in the recoil/weight/bulk department.

Yes of course, I was referring to the classic metal frame 380's and 9x18 guns like the PPK, makarov, P64, CZ82, ect... The same benefits of locked breech that makes the subcompact 9's possible also translates to even smaller 380's.

 

[Sistema1927]

Two of the better online reviews:


No mention of excessive recoil.

Ever shot one? There are plenty of reviews out there stating the same thing that I mentioned. The recoil is horrendous. Painful to shoot one magazine full. I know that recoil is subjective, but there is something about that configuration that causes pain upon firing.

I am not a recoil "wimp", I can shoot an XDs in .45 ACP all day long, as well as a Ruger Blackhawk with "Ruger only" loads approaching .44 magnum. My Makarov and CZ82 in 9x18 are very mild, but the P64 is a beast.

 

[Tallball]

For a pistol that actually fits in my pocket easily, it's an LCP-type 380.

For OWB under an outer shirt, my G26 is excellent.

I have a really nice Makarov that I like a lot, but it is outclassed by modern 380's and 9mm's as a carry pistol.

 

[FL-NC]

With the smaller 9mm pistols available today at reasonable prices (S&W shield, Glock 43, LC9, etc.) along with the price of 9mm ammo (both cheaper ball for practice, along with such a huge selection of defensive HP rounds) not to mention the power factor, it seems to me that settling for a 380 or 9x18 should be counter-intuitive, unless concealability is so critical that the slightly smaller size of a 380 is so important that ammo price, selection, and availability, along with power, both take a backseat to a slightly smaller size and a little less weight.

 

[TN Outlaw]

If I was leaning toward a pocket 9mm I would look at the Sig 938, Ruger LC9s, Diamondback DB9, and Kahr CM9. I wouldn't even want to shoot a gun any smaller than these.

The DB9 with a hot 124gr is a handful but is just as easy to pocket carry than the micro 380's.

I wouldn't invest into the 9x18 for SD with so many better options out there. For coolness and history, yep. For EDC, nope.

 

[entropy]

You left out the ubiquitous pocket gun of the 20th century, which still is pocket carried by some of us old duffers; .38 Spl. But though I do sometimes carry my snub in a pocket, I am looking at some of the .380's out there.

 

[MedWheeler]

My PF9 is barely bigger than my P64, is lighter, carries just as easily, holds an additional round, and shoots a more-versatile and readily-available (and affordable) round.

That being said, if I didn't already have it long before the P64, I'd have no qualms putting the Pole on duty in a pocket. Carried a PPK/S as an off-duty gun that way for a long time many moons ago. The P64 and its Soviet-designed brother, the Makarov Pistol, both sport heel-mounted magazine releases. This might be a deciding factor as well.

 

[toivo]

I love the old Commie guns for historical reasons, but they do illustrate the decided advantages of a competitive capitalist economy in terms of technological progress leading to a quality product.

That said, there are a few exceptions, namely CZ pistols and AK-pattern rifles. Those stand on their own merits.

 

[Fiv3r]

The super slim 9mm makes the most amount of sense. However, I do find the .380 to be what i carry more often than not. My ec9s is just a tad larger than my lcp ii, but it's just big enough that I don't like pocket carrying it. I do like the 9mm owb as a so-light-i-forget-i-have-it-on-me gun, but the lcp just pockets better.

I had a P64. Long trigger and pretty stout to shoot, but build like a brick outhouse. Outside of a conversation piece that can be pressed into carry duty, I don't see a reason not to go with a single stack 9mm if you can carry I or settle on a .380 if you really need to hide the gun comfortably.

 

[someguy2800]

I think size is really the determining factor on the best caliber for pocket carry. I’m 6’4” and something the size of a G42, P365, lc9s, Taurus millennium, ect... all feel good in the pocket to me and I have tried them. Going up in size just a tiny bit to a S&W shield or a Kahr CW9 and it’s suddenly over the line for pocket carry. Even my lc9s which I love for pocket carry demands I use the flush mag rather than the pinky extension one. I have never tried but a Makarov or PPK might be a little big just due to the amount of stuff sticking out of them.

In any case if I can have a 9mm that shoots well and pocket carries better with the same or less recoil, then that’s what I’m going with. If I was 5’6” though the lc9s would probably be to big to pocket carry so then I would find something in the next smaller class of gun which would have to be a 380. I can’t ever see a situation where a 9x18 gun would fit for me as a carry gun.

 

[kozak6]

Modern poly .380's are tiny tiny tiny and weigh less than half as much as a P64 or Mak.

 

[paulsj]

I suppose one advantage of P64 is that it will not break down like P365 or Ruger.

 

[lincen]

Very few people like 9x18 hanguns more than I do, and I have over 20 of them to choose from. As to ammo choices, don’t forget Buffalo Bore and Underwood. They both make excellent Makarov ammo that takes this caliber as far as it needs to go. My truck and travel gun is a Bulgarian Makarov. I have three P-64’s and they are painful for me to shoot but the Wolff springs and, most importantly, the Polish Iron rubber grip make them much more pleasant to shoot.

But the question is about a pocket gun. With so many good choices in new locked breech 380 pistols, that’s what is in my pocket. Either a Beretta Pico, Remington RM380, or Sig P238 will be in my pocket, with the Remington getting the most carry time. For IWB carry it is a Springfield XDE in 9mm.

 

[bannockburn]

No 9mm. Maks in my collection so I would say my best pocket gun in a 9mm. would be a Kahr CM9 and my best .380 a SIG P238.

 

[paulsj]

Modern poly .380's are tiny tiny tiny and weigh less than half as much as a P64 or Mak.

I wouldn't trade the R9 for anything in deep consealment category but shooting the gun demands a lot from the user.

 

[the count]

It's like asking whats the best car for driving around town. Answer, whatever works for you. Buy all 3, then sell off the ones you didn't like.