best rifle for worst case scenario?

[701]

I'm looking to buy either an AR-15 or Springfield SOCOM (II)...16 inch version, before they are banned again. I can only afford to get one, and am trying to figure out what the best possible choice would be if this were the only "assault-type" rifle I would be able to get before the bans return. Im looking for maximum parts availability/interchangability, ammo availablility vs. performance, vs overall quality and reliability in a rifle that someday my grandchildren or their children would hopefully never need.
I like the SOCOM for ballistics, but dont know if parts avail in the future would be limited, and perhaps it would be too heavy and perhaps a bit overkill (if there is such a thing).
As far as AR's go, Im not sure who makes the best rifle for reliability and interchangability (firing pins,springs, anything legal that would interchange with govt issue should civvie parts dissapear. Also am not sure whether to go with the new gas piston design, or if it is still relatively uncommon parts wise with other variants. Any input would be greatly appreciated

 

[Will Learn]

Ak-47

 

[alex_trebek]

Between the two, I would go with the AR. I would also stick to the blow back design. With the AR, if you want multiple calibers, just get a new upper and some converted mags. I have played around with both of these rifles, and the AR is by far more fun to shoot, for me at least. Plus there are more accessories for the AR, and the AR is cheaper.

As for the manufacturer, I personally would go with DPMS, Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster (be wary of their latest QC problems). But if I am going to buy an AR, I dont plan on cheaping out. For compatability with government parts, colt makes the government M-16's. I believe all of these parts are basically milspec between the brands I mentioned. I hear that the guy who started DPMS used to work for colt, if that is true then DPMS is probably as close to a colt as you could get.

 

[dannyabear]

What Will Learn said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[701]

ak? colt?

I considered the AK, but isn't ammo getting harder to find now and more expensive? If not, what would the best AK make be?

I thought HK is now doing the military issue? what downsides would there be that I havent thought of in a collapsable stock? I was leaning towards the Colt or bushie but I hadnt heard about the QC issues. Any word on the best mags for wuality? I read alot about green followers, different coatings, steel/aluminum, etc, and dont even know where to begin.

Thanks guys for all the help and info!

 

[701]

ak? colt?

I considered the AK, but isn't ammo getting harder to find now and more expensive? If not, what would the best AK make be?

I thought HK is now doing the military issue? what downsides would there be that I havent thought of in a collapsable stock? I was leaning towards the Colt or bushie but I hadnt heard about the QC issues. Any word on the best mags for wuality? I read alot about green followers, different coatings, steel/aluminum, etc, and dont even know where to begin.

Thanks guys for all the help and info!

 

[701]

ak? colt?

I considered the AK, but isn't ammo getting harder to find now and more expensive? If not, what would the best AK make be?

I thought HK is now doing the military issue? what downsides would there be that I havent thought of in a collapsable stock? I was leaning towards the Colt or bushie but I hadnt heard about the QC issues. Any word on the best mags for wuality? I read alot about green followers, different coatings, steel/aluminum, etc, and dont even know where to begin.

Thanks guys for all the help and info!

 

[El Tejon]

701, the problem with your question is that the subjective is objective, especially among the gun nuts.

1. Go handle a bunch of guns, see what there is out there.

2. Borrow a buddy's gun and go to the range.

3. Get signed up for a carbine class, many very fine trainers out there now. Allow your software (your training) to select your hardware (your guns). The choices among educated shooters (those with say 250+ hours) will be different from those that have not trained.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

As much as I like (and want) a Socom or Scout, I'd say an AR is king of parts availability and interchangability. Plus you can get an AR15 AND an AK for the price of a Socom. AR looks more evil too since the M1 doesn't have the "pistol grip that protrudes conspicously"

 

[TX1911fan]

I'd love a SOCOM, but if I was only buying one, I'd get an AR. Fun as heck to plink with, you can hunt with it, you can buy new uppers for it. I love mine. I've shot an AK and just didn't like it nearly as much.

 

[esq_stu]

I considered the AK, but isn't ammo getting harder to find now and more expensive? If not, what would the best AK make be?

Prices are up, but military calibers are still pretty plentiful, IMO, especially AK ammo. A box of 20 rds of 7.62x39 Wolf that I bought for $2.50 in 2002 goes for about $6.50 at the same store. Similar price increases for .223, but I see less supply of .223 at the stores I go to than 7.62x39.

There are many good AKs. They vary in workmanship, but most are reliable, and none are as accurate as an AR IMO. I personally like the stamped heavy duty Norinco with the double hook trigger.

 

[MHBushmaster]

Socom 16 or Ar15 or AK?

AR15 for the win.
The AK will keep chugging along if you don't clean it, but it won't be getting you food on the table at anything besides brush gun distance ranges.
Those that pick an AK are pretty much useless beyone 150 yards for anything resembling practical accuracy at that range. The ballistics coefficient on the 7.62x39 bullet are horrendous. The B.C. of 75gr .224 bullets are like night and day compared to the x39 bullet B.C.

The Socom 16 is the most expensive to feed, which lends itself to you not shooting it that much which lends itself to you not being totally familiar with your rifle = Bad/Danger.

AR15's are the most modular type rifles ever. You can essentially make mulitiple rifles out of one lower receiver (which is the actual gun). You can pop off uppers in seconds and go from an M4 CQB rifle to a 24" free floated "sniper" type rifle in seconds. Plus AR15's can use .22LR Ceiner kits where you just drop out the carrier and bolt and replace it with ceiner .22lr bolt and you are able to shoot and practice for cheap/do small game hunting with .22Lr ammo.

 

[sacp81170a]

I'm looking to buy either an AR-15 or Springfield SOCOM (II)...16 inch version, before they are banned again.

Without knowing anything about the terrain where you're located, I can't really say. Are longer shots out past 200 meters a concern? Will you be using your rifle as a potential game getter? Without knowing more about your intended purpose it's hard to say. One thing you might think about is buying a couple of stripped AR lowers. I just picked up a DPMS lower for about $120 for a build up. The nice part is that you can afford to buy one and your SOCOM and still have a lower to build an AR on in case of a future ban. Also, an AR lower is much more versatile since you can change out the uppers and have access to a number of different calibers and configurations. Try that with an AK!

 

[DogBonz]

AR...

Here's Why:

Im looking for maximum parts availability/interchangability, ammo availablility vs. performance, vs overall quality and reliability in a rifle that someday my grandchildren or their children would hopefully never need.

There are far more parts available for the AR than there are for the M1a. Ammo is far less expensive as well. Also, the AR is available in many calibers. Fro the price of an entry level M1a you can get your self a very nice AR or a good AR and a stripped lower or two.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

I'd go one of two ways

AK-47 and 4 or 5 cases of ammo.

AR-15 with 1 or two cases of ammo.

These would cost about the same.

You are looking at this for long term - shtf/self defense/plinking right?

AK: I would suggest getting this:

$429 from http://www.classicarms.us

AR-15: I'd suggest getting this:

$99 from http://www.aimsurplus.com
and an upper complete rifle kit from http://www.del-ton.com $465 for any configuration that you want - though, I'd recommend the $45 upgrade to chromed barrel.
That'll get you a nice AR for $600 - saving you $250 or so from buying an assembled rifle. Puting the guts in the lower is a piece of cake and requires no special tools. There are plenty of places to get a free "how to" to follow.

Oh, and get at least 7 mags for each as well.

The 7.62x39 ammo is still very cheap and you can stock up in case they ban import of russian ammo. If they do, you can still buy domestic winchester or remington among others.

They aren't going to ban the .223 but it's a lot more pricey.

 

[701]

you present a good case for the ak. who makes the best ak? also, are there any compatability issues when building an ar between companies?

 

[sacp81170a]

are there any compatability issues when building an ar between companies?

Some Colt lowers were made with take-down pin holes larger than mil spec. If you stay with DPMS, Stag, Oly, and any of the other big names this should not be an issue. For the most part, they'll work very well with each other if you stay with the major players.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

yes

But I'd stay away from Olimpic Arms. The Stag is my personal choice but DPMS and several others a good receivers too. They are all "standard".

There are so many AK's available and many are very good. I will just say that I'd avoid the Romanian WASR's as they are hit and miss quality-wise.

That one that I've shown is IMHO the best value right now - the Yugo kits are very nice. If you go to http://www.atlanticfirearms.com, you will see a large selection. If you decide to go there, I recommend joining gunsnet.net as Atlantic gives gunsnet members a discount!

Check the AR prices there too - just to compare to buying the kit and lower and assembling yourself.

BTW, this assembly won't take much more than an hour total - if that.

 

[MudPuppy]

I'm picking up 500rds of 7.62x39 tonight for $85. Try that for either .223 or .308.

That said, I really, really want a socom.

 

[Browning]

Even though prices have risen, ammo for the 7.62X39 is still cheaper than .223 or 7.62X51 Nato/.308 Win.

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The prices for bulk 7.62X51 at 1000 rds is about $450.

The prices for bulk .223 Rem at 1000 rds is about $200 to $400 depending on alot of things.

Prices for 7.62X39 Wolf is $150 to $175 per 1000 rds.

Yeah it did get more expensive to shoot the 7.62X39, but so did the others.

This is where I usually go unless there's a gun show in town.
www.gulfcoastammo.com/

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Or here.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/surplus_gg.htm

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/surplus_bcc.htm

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/defenseh_cfh.htm

That said I'd still probably get an AR-15 as they're much more accurate at farther range and you can shoot them almost as cheap if you look around really well for inexpensive ammo. .223 Rem Wolf ammo is about the same price as the 7.62X39 Wolf ammo. Some people don't like it because it's got a steel case, but I've never had a problem with it.

 

[collateral]

I would suggest an AK if you want a short-medium ranged rifle that is cheap to feed. I can still find Wolf and Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for 4 dollars for a box of 20 and thats not bad at all.

However, you could go the AR route and buy a complete rifle in 5.56/.223/6.8/whatever suits you, and then buy an upper in 9mm or .22lr.

However, I'm sure you could get a WASR-10 and an AR both with ammunition for the price of a SOCOM and ammunition

 

[Will Learn]

"who makes the best ak?" The Russians. If you want a real nice one I would suggest getting a AK-103 converted Siaga from AKUSA- http://www.ak-103.com/home.html
Thats where I got mine and i haven't seen any that can match its quality, although it was over 1k. If you where trying to get a nice AK and a bunch of ammo I would suggest a Polish(underfolder if it was me) AK from vector arms http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html I've heard good things about them, chrome lined barrels. Their website says they're out so look at this site and you can usually see an underfolder on there used http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=7&f=122
I just referb'd a WASR10 hi cap(Romanian) from Century and it functions great and set me back only $350 w/ 5 30rd mags. I did take it shooting today for the first time and it is no where near as accurate as my converted siaga. I've also heard good things about Norincos.

I own an AR but lately the decent(not wolf)ammo has been around $400 per 1k, and to hell with that. I did pick up 1k of wolf .223($200) that I'm going to use for plinking but I might need to add a different gas tube(PRI fatty) to get the stuff to cycle. Theres no way i would get a battle rifle(.308) right now unless i had a ton of ammo stocked up already. I say get A nice a AK($500 range) with a G2 trigger and spend what you saved on ammo. After all it would be nice if you children had ammo to shoot out of the thing. If you want a good deal on bulk(i mean multiple cases)ammo try sportsmans guide, i think they're selling cases for $180 and have a flat-rate $20 shipping rate. Cabelas also had their stuff marked around that price. End long-winded response.

 

[benEzra]

you present a good case for the ak. who makes the best ak?

Pretty much any AK will be reliable, but the higher-end AK's may be a smidgen more accurate, and have nicer fit and finish. AK prices start around $400 and go up into the four-digit range, depending on how nice you want it to look.

As long as the sights are on straight, the Romanians are great (I own one), and they're the least expensive. Stock finish on some of the newer Romanians is awful, but you can fix that with a can of polyurethane from Lowe's.

Here's my SAR-1, with a Kobra on the siderail mount and a Hungarian 20-round mag.

Generally speaking, more money buys you better fit and finish, and perhaps slightly better accuracy, but not necessarily more functionality. My SAR-1 has never had a single failure of any sort.

IMHO, milled receivers aren't necessarily any more functional than stamped (it is noteworthy that the Russian military uses stamped receivers for all their AK derivatives). However, milled ones are quite a bit heavier.

For the money, you can't beat the Romanian AK's. As others have mentioned, make sure everything is on straight, and if you can find a "WASR-GP" or "GP-WASR" with the Tapco trigger group, the trigger pull will be better than a lot of guns costing twice as much.

Or, spend a little more and get something with nicer fit and finish. Converted Saigas are VERY nice, for example. But IMHO none of the civilian AK's currently on the U.S. market are crap.

Some helpful threads:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=292378
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=294845
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=288356

IMHO, a good unmagnified optic makes a world of difference with the AK platform, unless you are really good with iron sights. Because of the short sight radius and the forward position of the rear sight, the AK is an easy rifle to shoot badly and a difficult rifle to shoot well.

The AK platform is also very difficult to benchrest due to barrel harmonics and the heavy gas piston (for best results, put the front sandbag as far back as possible, either right up against the front of the magwell or right behind the magazine). If you like to shoot small groups from a bench, an AR would probably be a better choice. But for shooting offhand, the AK is great. I am currently getting into IPSC-style rifle competition with that rifle, and it does very well.

 

[ROMAK IV]

The AR is more likely to be banned again than the SOCOM, but the SOCOM is a better rifle in "the worst case scenario". As for AK's, I would personally recommend my namesake, a ROMAK III. It's chambered in 7,62 x 54R, and that caliber is cheaper than 7.62 x 39 currently. I already have an M1-A, it was my first rifle, but the ROMAK and 7000 rounds of compatible light ball ammunition, cost less than what I paid for the M1-A new. The gun market, especially "evil military style rifles and the ammunition that they use" is no longer static and predictable, even though there is no "ban" on the horizan, so time is of the essence, and what is available today may not be so tommorow. There are people working behind the scenes, trying to prevent you from buying any of these weapons as well as inexpensive ammunition. They will also try to put as many manufacturers and dealers out of business as possible, so that you have no place to buy anything. Why just today, a federal judge ruled that Mayor Bloomberg of NYC "CAN" sue out of state retalers for damages from legal guns illegally used in NYC. Your favorite gun dealer in VA or NC may be in legal peril. Get what you want first. Get what's more likely to be gone second. AK's will be the first to go since, gunbanners fear them, and the bulk of them are still imported. Any imported guns can be banned from import at the whim of the president. Domestically produced guns will be last, but AR's will go before M1-A's. M1-A's are still legal in California! Just without the 20 round mags. Your new AR in California has to be castrated to prevent it from using a detachable magazine. That's why I don't live there! Well, sorry to go on and on, this has been a mission of mine for the past 20 years. Good luck! Hurry!

 

[otcconan]

I have to say I'd go with a National Match M1A.