Best tactical shotgun?

[oldpaladin]

Dear Dave,
Thanks for the kind words... I'll have to think about getting a t-shirt that proudly proclaims me to be, "oldpaladin, the barbarian..." Maybe in twenty years, Arnold will be decrepit enough to play me. LOL! So far, I've found the Winchester 3" rifled deer slug to be fairly accurate with 3 1/2" groups at 100yds... I cheated, and used my Meprolight 21 Reflex Sight, instead of the Meprolight ghost ring sights... I confess, I do like a 3.5 MOA golden dot to aim with... Kinda takes a lot of MY error out of the operation... Understand that Remington's 3" Slugger, with a slug that in not Foster design, will perform better. Will find out next weekend. Went out with 5 grapefruit, placed them a yard apart at 100 yards, and hit all five with one shot apiece. Not great, but I WILL get better. My desire? Standard sized playing cards, to start with. I do wonder, though, what is the possible accuracy possible with a smoothbore? I can still roll tennis balls at 225 yards, using my Armalite, but beyond three hundred, I'm starting to show my vision (tri-focals) and, I guess, age... So, yo-ho-ho, it's a shotgunner's life for me. Also, I haven't liked the reports from Afghanistan, and the performance of 5.56 bullets... True, some are M4's and others M16's. If some of the best trained and motivated troops on the planet are having to use multiple rounds to make a terminal stop, what about old duffers like me? Would rather use the "one shot, one kill" philosophy. Since I can't use a scope worth a darn, I'm a peep/ghostring, and reflex/red dot kinda guy... Deer season, whether in Missouri or Maine, I'll be using Brenneke's best, probalby the 3", with the 1 3/8 oz. rifled slug... Out of an M1014, the recoil will be a lot less than I suffered with 535gr .45-70's! A lot lighter to carry, than my ex-Browning BPCR! More fun, too! Will also be trying to shoot skeet with the M1014 in the spring. Yes, I know that ghost ring sights are not a good idea, but I got the wild idea of using the Reflex sight. Shucks, it MIGHT work- maybe... if so, it'll have transitioned from "just" a combat shotgun, to a valid "survival" gun... Anyhow, this is what I'm working on, and toward, shotgun wise... Looking forward to reloading specialized ammo for the beauties too, when I get moved... Currently, southern Maine or the Chesapeake area of Maryland... Can't lose either way.
Duke, I'm with you on the autoloaders, and El Tejon, you are correct- be it butter knife or sword... Daniel, most combat in these United States takes place within 7-10 yards. Nice choice, BTW- it or the M3 would have been my next choice... Andrew, your logic is irrefutable. I loved my Mossy 590A1, and it was a great gun... Sir Galahad, the pump is the most versatile of all shotguns, no question. However, when you wear that one out, look at Benelli's M3, where you can use it auto or pump. Awesome! Unlimited vistas and horizons... Levelhead, I like the sound of the ratcheting of the slide- makes the BG begin to think of mortality- his. However, the sound of my M1014's bolt slamming home is like the crack of doom... They don't have to know what it "is," just that a large, steel door, has suddenly been closed... Frankly, just the thought of it makes me grin, big time... Gentlemen, and any ladies present, I want to thank-you all for allowing me to join in on one of the most delightful lists I've ever seen, let alone heard of. Again, Thanks! Looking forward to future "talks." I wish you all well, that you be safe, at peace, and may happiness always be yours.

Carter, oldpaladin, out...

 

[sm]

AS usual

I have to agree with Dave. HSMITH, El Tejon(boy did my imagination have fun with that mind movie).

In any firearm - its got to fit shooter, reliable with loads, allowing quick accurate hits.

Practice is the key, know whatever firearm you have so it is an extension of oneself.

Seen guys with 1100's that could (hate this word) tactically run circles around guys...stock, no mag extensions, nada. Same gun they hunt ducks, doves and deer with.

100 yds? single shot 410 will ding 'em, fun getting it right 5 times in a row...

 

[Dave McCracken]

Carter, you're certainly welcome, and welcome here. Hope you stick around. If you move to Md, let me know, we'll heave the fatted calf on the barbie...

As for slugs, with the better ones of the three styles(Forster, Sabots, Brenekkes) it's impossible to predict which ones will group best out of a given shotgun. Loose rule of thumb is that Sabots do best in full rifled barrels and the others in smoothbores or with rifled choke tubes. All 12 gauge slugs are effective, so it's simply a case of finding the best grouping.

Best slug in my deer 870 is the KO Brenekke. I've invested a few in venison futures with near perfect results and short blood trails.

Last bench session with that combo had a three shot, 3 groups at 100 yard average of a bit more than 4" edge to edge, which compares closely to your results.

I see no advantage to 3" slugs, but YMMV.

And, try rolling a beer can at long range with slugs. Pair up and have races with a buddy.

Thanks for the backup,1973.

Amd El Tejon, thank you too. Those mental pictures have me chortling still....

 

[Soap]

Carter,

You missed the "poor college kid" part I don't have an M1, I have a Nova.

 

[oldpaladin]

Daniel,
I've sold lots of Benelli Nova's, but not had the opportunity to shoot the 3.5" Must be massive on the recoil end, but hell on the waterfowl... If I were to go back to pumpguns, it would be to either a Nova, or a M3... What ammo size do you use for your hunting, and for home defense needs? Agreed, 7 yards is short, and anything above 4 Buck will work, but maybe you have a preference... Anyway, I wish you well, and know that someday you'll go beyone the "poor student" apartment.

Carter, oldpaladin, out...

 

[Soap]

Carter,

I use Federal Tactical #4 buck or 7 1/2 shot 2.75" field loads for HD. I have the Nova with the shorter tube and the LPA ghost rings. I don't do very much hunting with it since I'm so busy with school during all of the seasons. Its a pity!

Dan

P.S. I appreciate the well wishes! Things are going well in school, I just need to get my foot in the door... Investment banking, here I come!

 

[oldpaladin]

Daniel,
You WILL do well. I hope you not only get your foot in the door, but the rest of you as well. I imagine you've grown attached to it over the years...
Hang in there, my friend. From what I read, there is a lot of investment in banks, nowadays...

Carter, oldpaladin, out...

 

[Gordon]

If you are in a motor home and come to goofy Santa Cruz , we'll dig a 4' pit(with my back hoe) and I'll stand behind you and roll out 5 grape fruit as quick as I can while you shoot from pit.. That drill will be like running heads!Sir a shotgun is an emergency weapon beyond 50yds although you will PROBABLY hit up to 125 yds. Probably doesnt cut it in combat and besides a shotgun is the best weapon from 20' out to 5 times that distance.50Yds up is rifeman country. I have been competing in 3 gun matches since they were invented and have a 'full race' 1100 Rem. backed up by a 'full race' 870 Rem for 20 years. I also have sporting versions of both weapons in 12 and 20 gauge. I have never seen a softer recoil than an 1100 in any gun. The Bennellis are very nice and the 'tactical' ones especially robust but they kick like a Browning Auto 5 to me(another favorite gun and very overlooked for HD).

 

[oldpaladin]

Gordon.
I appreciate your input, Sir. However, unless the Atlantic Ocean begins lapping at the eastern foothills of the Rocky Mountains, it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever visit the sun drenched land of the People's Republik of California again... Great people, nice climate, barbaric state government. No offense intended, Sir! I'm very comfortable with the M1014, as it (to me) has the same recoil as my Armalite, or a 28 gauge... Agreed, recoil is subjective. I had to give-up my M1A Supermatch because my shoulders began feeling like they had been turned into gravel and ground glass. Yessir, I know that the shotgun is held by many to be an "emergency" weapon. If I have to use a weapon again against another human being, it WILL be an emergency... In the event that this occurs, I have to keep in mind the probable distances that may be involved... As most combat (in this country) takes place under 125 yards, the proper blend of experience, discipline, training, weapon, and ammunition is, of course, crucial. I am more likely to toss my Benelli into my SUV, than my Armalite. This, of course, could be an error on my part. My go pack is 600rds of Hornady 75gr. TAP or Match... Undoubtedly, accuracy and range would be much better than my Benelli's... Am I likely to find myself in a long range duel, or firefight, or human wave attack? Darned if I know... Don't even relish the thought. Can only prepare for so many things... I guess I could carry both, the SUV is big enough... Since I'm more prone to carry the M1014, I make sure my go pack is loaded with a good selection of Buckshot, slugs, and yes, , sabots... Each round has a specific use... Even flares... Since I am, by choice, limiting myself to one shoulder weapon, I want to be able to hit reliably out to 125 yards- what I consider to be the maximum effective range. I will test that, however, to see just how far a smoothbore will go... With newer types of ammo appearing each year, who really knows what the limit is? Even the old .45-70 could shoot 2200 yards, as per the Army Ordinance Board, about 1873, I think... Volley fire, if memory serves me... Not accurate, but who knows? Anyway, getting back to the shotgun as a combat weapon, I feel much more comfortable with it under certain conditions. If over 125yards, or more than I can effectively engage with the shotgun, then the Armalite will do out to 600yards... There, lots of ammo will help... As to competitions, my hat, and my long lost hair, are off to you, Sir. Any races I would do, I'd have to cheat... Oh, to be young again... A wise man once said that youth is wasted on the young... LOL, he was right! As to the superb Browning A5, that's the reason I went with the Benelli M1014! For me, gas operating systems are the best choice... Someday, I hope to have a Benelli R1 in .300 Win Mag. Hope they do it in the new .300 WSSM... Wow, that would truly be awesome... Imagaine, such a round, with the recoil of a .243... Hmmmm... Some day... Rifleman country... Yep, from CQB range out to whatever you can see... Won't argue with you there, but we ARE talking about shotguns... At present, I can hit what I can see with my trifocals... 125yards and under, is VERY comfortable... With the AR15, and squinting, out to 400... Then, call in arty, or air strikes, or saturate the area- suppression style... Not pretty, but pretty effective... Maybe we can meet over some very large tankards of ale, someday. I'd like that... Always willing to learn...
Regards and Respects,
Carter F. Leffen, oldpaladin, out...

 

[Island Beretta]

The Benelli M3 IMHO is the best tactical shotgun available off the shelf today. Read up on it and you will concur!! I recently got one and it has been downright awesome. Fast, light, convertible and extremely rugged.

When I was in the market for a shotgun, I did not consider Benellis as listening to people talk about them I thought they were overpriced, kicked like a mule, and left a lot to be desired. I therefore focused on the Remingtons, Berettas and the Brownings, handling and firing them.

Then one day I was at a range watching an IPSC shotgun match and this guy was pulverising the competition. The gun was fast, accurate and reliable. When he finished shooting a crowd gathered around him, including competitors, who was curious about the gun. He identified the gun as a stock M3 Benelli. I subsequently got one to handle and fire and the search was over!!

 

[oldpaladin]

Island Beretta,
Hello! I cannot argue with another Benelli aficianado. Frankly, I've been touting the benefits of the M3 for quite some time now... The ability to go from pump to semi-auto, and back again, or vice versa, is truly outstanding... The hybrid nature of M3 fills a category in which it has no equals, and none could ever be better... It is, simply, the most versatile shotgun ever made... Regardless of ammo type, type of mission, or need for versatility, the M3 can meet any challenge. You, like other M3 owners and/or users, chose wisely... Had I not been fortunate to get my M4S90's (M1014), I would have gotten an M3 and a Practical... As it is, I'm happy, but do wish I had the versatility that your M3 has... From what I've seen and heard, it's not only an outstanding self defense gun, but also a truly great "survival" gun as well... As a combat shotgun, it has few equals... Forgive me, please, if I include my M4S90/M1014... For those who's jobs are to go into harm's way, the choices for combat shotguns are very few... Being able to use any kind of ammo, and not be platform dependent, is a true force multiplier... Any and all military and police units should seriously look at the Benelli M3- you never know when your life, and that of others, will be on the line... The discerning civilian will not just look once or twice, but will carry the knowledge that "It" is out there- if you dare... Benelli, second to none, and good to go...

Regards and Respects,
Carter, oldpaladin, out...