best trail round for autoloader handgun

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Just to make a point, I recognize most people have a limit on how big a gun we prefer to carry. While not tongue in cheek, the .458 SOCOM is definitely oversized compared to a Desert Eagle in .50AE.

It's what happens when you look at numbers then actually try to do something with them. Doesn't always work.

I would like to point out that when hunting dangerous game the guide usually might have a large revolver but his primary arm is a major power level rifle to back up the client. Going it alone in the woods that should still be the guideline where dangerous game lives. There are enough videos of hikers mauled and eaten by bears to make that point. If you won't take a rifle caliber weapon then you definitely need to be good with the pistol you have.

No .25ACP's need apply.
 
There are two fairly recent episodes I am aware of in which hikers have used handguns to stop brown bear attacks in national parks, one with .357 Magnum and the other .45acp. Bear died from the .45, bear not found but presumed dead by NPS from the .357. In that case, revolver used after yelling and bear spray failed.
 
10mm is a great option, and while not a huge Glock fan, the 20 is the way to go for capacity.

10mm is making a comeback in part since people want power but not all are revolver people.
 
Let's see
9mm Parabellum 1908
.45 acp 1905 but didn't really get a reliable platform until 1909
.32acp/7.65 1900 still kills
.380 1908 popular as ever.
Did I miss anything?
 
First and foremost, thank you all for the comments and information.
I didn’t lay out why I said autoloader, but basically, I want more than 6 shots. If I ever need to use this tool for my stated situation, It’ll be a moving target. I’d like more opportunities to hit my target than 6. Even if I’m 100%, I suspect I can get 6 off faster in an auto than I can in a DA revolver. Yes, the revolvers offer the potential of a longer BBL length, but that comes at a heavy price; weight, and round count. If I was hunting with a handgun, totally different story.

Corpral Agarn: When it comes to bear spray, at this time, I’m not inclined to try spray, and then if it doesn’t work, while the critter is chewing on my arm, try to reach for a firearm. As my opening post clearly states, I’ll do everything I can to avoid, but if that fails, I’m currently not a believer in gradually increasing force on something that is powerful, mean and moves that fast.
Jmr40: your comment about bbl length is spot on, thank you! I was having a hard time finding the way to describe that concept. Hence the rifle suggestions made by others, and I FULLY understand a rifle would be ideal, but I also have limits I’m willing to work within.
That article that JTQ linked was interesting to read.
Tirod: While your suggestion of a .458 SOCOM out of an AR isn’t within my parameters for this post, I hadn’t thought of it yet. Thank you. I kinda like that idea for return fishing trips to AK. 16” of bbl length, gives for a fair amount of pressure build, to generate some better energy numbers. Worth a careful look!
FWIW: the tiny littl lady game warden up there last time, had a .454 casaul strapped to her hip. I thought she might tip over.
WYO: like you said in your post, for general woods bumming, you’re a generalist. I’m not trying to enter into a place with known bears either mad, feeding or with young, I don’t have a death wish. The point of my selection is something I can strap to my thigh on a leg rig (with my size, I won’t even feel the weight there) and IF we get surprised, I have a decent tool, that won’t interfere with the activity at hand (simply hiking with family, or backup for a bow-hunt)
Malamute: Yes, I agree with you. No matter what platform and ammo I select, I will be sure to run plenty of ammo through it, to make sure it can handle the load. Testing is for the range, when carrying for defense (that’s EXACTLY what this would be classified as) I’m not a believer in something that hasn’t been vetted.
Thompsoncustom: yes, I understand, and agree with your point. Hense my choice of an autoloader. A G20 carries 16 rounds of 10mm. Even with a 30% hit % (moving target, adrenaline, panic), 33% of 16 is 5, 33% of 6 is only 2. I’ll take 5 over 2 any day.
One detail that I keep thinking about when reading the replies, is the difference between actively hunting said critters, vs. defending yourself when doing a different activity. When hunting, you’re on the offensive. You put yourself in a position to have time, patience, and a good shot. In those situations, I’ve always been taught to use as few shots as possible. When in a defensive situation, you use as many as you need, or perhaps all of them. If I have to defend myself against a bear, I may have to stand in front of a judge to explain my actions, but weather I shot it 2 times, or 16, I have serious doubts that detail will sway the judge’s opinion.

At this point, I think I’ll move forward with that Glock 20. I’ll be switching to a G19 for CC, so the format training will transfer nicely.

I wonder if I can put a G40 BBL in a G20 for that extra performance?

Thanks again for all the suggestions and ideas!
PE
 
I dont know if the g40 barrel would work or not but it seems like it should.

Another thing to consider would be a compensator like the SJC 11 port. Tho it adds length to the gun it will increase your follow up shot speed. You could always go ported too but there not as effective but no added length from the comp.
 
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While I have nothing further to add relevant, just figured I'd mention I'm watching 'The Revenant' tonight. It has a great bear encounter scene, however 'hollywood' it may be.

Worth checking out and it immediately made me think of this thread....
 
You can buy an aftermarket 6" barrel for a G20 if you want to. If you want a long slide just buy the G40 to begin w/.
 
It wasn't for the longer slide, but for the increased performance that comes with a longer bbl.

I don't want the added weight if I can avoid it... I know, I know... but I want to draw the line SOMEWHERE....

PE
 
One detail that I keep thinking about when reading the replies, is the difference between actively hunting said critters, vs. defending yourself when doing a different activity. When hunting, you’re on the offensive. You put yourself in a position to have time, patience, and a good shot. In those situations, I’ve always been taught to use as few shots as possible. When in a defensive situation, you use as many as you need, or perhaps all of them.
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I wonder if I can put a G40 BBL in a G20 for that extra performance?
Click to expand...
It wasn't for the longer slide, but for the increased performance that comes with a longer bbl.
Click to expand...
The other difference between actively hunting and defending yourself is the time and effort allotted to draw your hand gun in each situation.

When hunting you can carry any type of weapon since you have planned to draw it and use it. A very long barreled pistol in a hunting holster isn't much of a drawback to the hand gun hunter since they know when they're going to deploy it.

When you're counting on the hand gun for defense, anything that could slow down your draw could be a significant disadvantage. A longer barrel on pistol used for defense is not often seen as an advantage.
 
JTQ: I agree with your points about hunting vs defense exactly, you just wrote it better than I did.

My thoughts on the 1" longer bbl in the G20, are this: that extra inch adds a considerable amount of performance, without much extra weight or length onto the end of the bbl. Since my current plan is a leg/thigh rig, in my mind, it just doesnt seem like that extra bbl inch would matter much, (if any at all) if I ever have to use the gun in a defensive situation. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Sure, with a wheel-gun, you can get 8" or even longer on the bbl, but even a 6", has more mass out in front, thus adding for a harder time getting on target with speed. When so many have offered concerns about the 10mm not having enough for the big stuff, adding bbl length helps it gain and keep some energy. Again, in THIS application, it's defensive, so I don't need energy at distance, but I do want a hard of a hit as I can manage in that platform.

Also, this gives rise to another question: if one were to put some compensatory slots in the top of that longer bbl, do you get the energy of the bbl length where the first slot is, or how does that affect the performance? I only ask this, for faster follow-up shots.

PE
 
Polar Express said:
It wasn't for the longer slide, but for the increased performance that comes with a longer bbl.



I don't want the added weight if I can avoid it... I know, I know... but I want to draw the line SOMEWHERE....



PE
Click to expand...


You can get a longer barrel but it's going to stick out of the slide. I personally don't want this on a pistol I'm carrying in the woods.
 
Your will lose some velocity from porting how much i cant tell you. With a compensator you loose none but add some length and a tad bit of weight.

Straight vertical ports are probably the best option more effective than the 45 degree style ports almost to the point where you can run 3 vertical ports instead of 6 45 degree ports to achive the same thing but you also bleed alot less gas with the vertical ports.

A compensator is pretty much the same idea but with chambers/baffles so gas also push the comp forward helping hold the slide closed longer and reducing recoil.
 
Look into converting a Glock 21 or 1911 whichever you prefer into a 460 Rowland. Pretty hot, creeping into legitimate 44mag territory.

I belive Corbon, Underwood and Buffalo Bore all produce ammo if you don't handload.
 
Was waiting for the Alaska based members to make this comment, but have to comment to all those comments about 16 rounds or anything more than a 6 shooter. They are quoting rounds fired at a moving target and 33% hits with all those extra shots verses 1 0r 2 hits with a wheel gun.

Well the reality is that if ever confronted by a piss*d off Brown bear or Moose that is charging in your direction, you will need lots of practice to even get one or 2 shots off before the beast is on top of you. If you have time to empty a full mag at a running bear, the bear is not charging at you or it is at least 50 yards out. Instead of worrying about spraying the tree line, you need to be packing what is likely to do the best job in the first 2 shots.
 
Well the reality is that if ever confronted by a piss*d off Brown bear or Moose that is charging in your direction, you will need lots of practice to even get one or 2 shots off before the beast is on top of you. If you have time to empty a full mag at a running bear, the bear is not charging at you or it is at least 50 yards out. Instead of worrying about spraying the tree line, you need to be packing what is likely to do the best job in the first 2 shots.
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I don't think its as either/or as your post makes it out. It isn't always a full on charge out of the blue. One may also be shooting an animal off somebody else. One may be laying on their back with the bear on top of them. This is the main reason Id choose something for capacity. I do carry a g-19 with quality fmj loads in my back pocket at times for this situation, but not to the exclusion of a 44 or 45 revolver and often a rifle.

Spraying the treeline? I don't recall anyone advocating that.
 
If a bear poses a threat, dumping a mag at the moving target is not a realistic. A charging bear can close from 30 yards in 3 seconds so drawing your firearm and firing requires a prompt and rapid action. If you have a warning and have your firearm in a defensive posture, you would be more likely to get off a couple more shots, but experience in the field from those who have faced such an attack says that most attacks are the result of coming between a mother and cub or disturbing a feeding bear.

My reference to spraying the tree line was a figure of speech often used to describe a full mag dump. I have never faced a charging bear but have spent considerable time reading and studying the stories of those who have. On our last trip to Ak I watched a video at a visitors [ranger] station in Tok Ak. The video showed a large brown bear charging from a distance of 30 yards and showed in real time what it would look like. If that was the first time you spotted the bear, your chance of drawing your weapon and firing was less than 50/50 and then only if you had the weapon available for immediate draw and you had practice in such a situation. Something in your back pack would be totally useless in the majority of realworld bear charges.
 
Understand you said back pocket not back pack, but the end result for the situation the OP describes is the same. Alaskans in the field in bear country often wear a chest holster designed for a quick cross draw. Moose often give signs of a pending attack but bears rarely do. In any regard fewer well placed rounds will prove more effective than a 15 or 16 round mag dump even if that were possible.

I often speak out when comments are made recommending max firepower vs choosing what is recommended by experienced guides or hunters. No offense to anyone and all are free to carry what they will. The OP stated one of the primary reasons for wanting an auto loader was more rounds for a moving target. My comment was speaking directly to the logic of that reasoning.
 
I'm with you on many aspects. I don't feel that just because its possible to shoot a lot and do it poorly that everyone will do so. I do choose a heavier caliber revolver over a self loader as a primary handgun, for several reasons. Many just don't like the weight of a revolver though, even a handy sized one like a 29 or short-ish Ruger SA)

My carrying of the g-19 is a last ditch item. I describe it as a "laying on back with bear standing on top with left arm in bears mouth" gun, to be applied under chin or side of head until empty or positive results achieved. I usually have a 4" Smith 29 or Ruger SA 45 on my belt, and often a rifle in hand when knocking around in the hills or mountains. The g-19 is an "in addition to" not "instead of".

Ive also studied bear encounters, and have talked to a number of people that have had them. "Bear country" starts at my door, and extends to most of the places I go for fun. Sometimes it is a "bolt out of the blue" when a bear attacks, sometimes its like a bad B movie, posturing, bluff charges or pounding the ground popping their teeth before deciding what theyre going to do, or just watching you for a year or two (clock only registers a few seconds or minutes for some reason) before deciding you look interesting and may taste good. One encounter was a combination. Guy was blindsided, mauled, bear backed off, gathered its cubs, then acted warlike again, at which point he shot her twice with a pistol and piled her up. Living in the areas where such things tend to happen reveals its a little more common than makes national news. Even events I clearly recall from regional news haven't been easy to find when searching later. I don't know why that is, but it is. Not all encounters make the news either.
 
gotboostvr
Look into converting a Glock 21 or 1911 whichever you prefer into a 460 Rowland. Pretty hot, creeping into legitimate 44mag territory.
Click to expand...

Wow. amazing numbers. Thank you for that suggestion, I think. I've spent all this time trying to learn more about 10mm, and now a whole new cartridge to consider. But.... those are some amazing numbers claimed by BB, Corbon and Underwood.

Any personal experience?
PE
 
Knowledgable Alaskan trail honchos are dumping their 5-shot, boat-anchor magnum wheelguns in favor of a 15+1 10mm G20 or a G40.

Word to the wise ... :cool:
 
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