BETTER GUNS: How many could make do with a .30 Carbine?

[USAF_Vet]

I have no desire to "make do" with a .30 carbine.

Honestly, I don't understand their appeal. Sure, they are a nice milsurp, but frankly I have no desire to own one.

 

[HKGuns]

But, every one one of them would take a red dot equipped M4 if offered as an alternative.

Um scuze me, paging Tirod. I guess you haven't read all the internet discussions about the ineffectiveness of the 5.56 round!

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Most combat fighting distances are under 100 yards, fast and furious. In Ohio, where I live, I have to try to get a shot in the open to 300-400 yards, and soon as I go prone, anyone that far away from me does not have a shot at me....he has to get within 100 to see me. Not that we do that much combat fighting around here, but for a "do all" little gun, that isn't very obtrusive or heavy, the little Carbine has a lot of followers. Lots of veterans of military conflicts have said that it is as deadly as a .223 under 150 yards, especially with hollowpoint ammo, but many who have stated that the ammo is scarce and expensive have a point. I reload, so that isn't the biggest problem for me. I'm not recommending that it replace anyone's AR or AK (although I think it is more accurate than most AK's), just that many consider it "adequate", and that it is an option for a light, fast handling gun, and that the GI issue version is probably worth the extra bucks over the commercially made variants for its reliability.

 

[Armchair Bronco]

If I had to make due with only 1 gun...AND I had access to enough ammo at reasonable prices...then I think the M1 Carbine would be all the gun I'd ever need.

My son and I are waiting for the Italian Citadel M1 Carbine chambered in .22LR to finally hit the market. It's the next best thing. Looks A LOT like the original, but will be so much cheaper to shoot out at the range.

I think the M1 Carbine is pretty much the *perfect* combination of form and function - it's like some classic car that's both fast and fun to drive.

Here's the Citadel .22LR version:

 

[USSR]

Not all that hard to shoot the Carbine cheaply, as in the price of .22 rimfire. One of the things I really like about it is, you can run cast bullets thru it at full power.

Don

 

[Dr.Rob]

Marlin made a rifle (99M1 and 99M2) based on the model 60 action that looked like a carbine, but if that Italian rifle is priced right hmmm.

The only reason I don't have an M-1 carbine is I haven't ever found the right one at the right tiime at the right price. Those Rock-Olas are not cheap!

 

[amd6547]

Today, 03:36 PM * #47
"....wally
Member
*

I've always liked the M1 Carbine, but all its goodness is readily available in a more powerful and easier to find ammo for gun in the Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30..."


I have heard that opinion, but I don't agree at all. I once owned a Mini14... In fact, I sold a Plainfield M1 carbine to buy the Mini. I regretted it the first time I shot the Mini.
My M1 carbine was more accurate at 100yds than the Mini was at 50yds.

Plus, there is something magical about how the M1 carbine handles for me....like it was designed specifically for me. When I shoulder it, the sights are aligned perfectly for me.
It is very light weight...lighter than the Mini.
With my Inland, I can shoot a 15rd grapefruit sized group at 100yds standing, offhand....without trying hard.

 

[One-Time]

I could, had I not been so deep in ARs when i discoverd how much I love the M1 Carbine id have stocked up on M1s instead and ditched my ARs. I love them

 

[carbine85]

There is one good reason why they have been loved for over 65 years, they are awesome little rifles

 

[Bobson]

I could make do with one just fine. Hell, I've been "making do" without owning any rifle at all for the past 26 years.

Having said that, I'm glad I don't have to make do with one, because I wouldn't necessarily want to.

 

[CZguy]

I could easily make do with this 1944 Underwood. But have always preferred a shotgun for home protection. For offense I would use a carbine, but would rather use an AR.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I would feel well protected and sleep quite soundly with an M1 carbine. No real downside IMO.

 

[Bill_Rights]

I am with the camp that would like a little more powerful cartridge than .30 Carbine. Seems to me the Commie 7.62x39mm should be the next step up from .30 Carbine = 7.62x33mm in NATO terms. Never heard anyone compare the two, though...

I like the .30 carbine rifle format. Has anyone ever adapted one to feed and fire 7.62x39mm ammo? Eek! Heresy!

Here are the specs comparison of the two cartridges:
.30 Carbine (7.62×33mm) Cartridge:

Bullet diameter
7.82 mm (0.308 in)

Neck diameter
8.41 mm (0.331 in)

Base diameter
8.99 mm (0.354 in)

Rim diameter
9.14 mm (0.360 in)

Case length
32.76 mm (1.290 in)

Overall length
41.91 mm (1.650 in)

Case capacity
0.92874 cm³ (14 gr H2O)

Rifling twist
1:20"

Primer type
Large pistol

Maximum pressure
265.45 MPa (38,500 psi)


7.62×39mm cartridge

Bullet diameter
7.89 mm (0.311 in)

Neck diameter
8.60 mm (0.339 in)

Shoulder diameter
10.07 mm (0.396 in)

Base diameter
11.35 mm (0.447 in)

Rim diameter
11.35 mm (0.447 in)

Rim thickness
1.50 mm (0.059 in)

Case length
38.70 mm (1.524 in)

Overall length
56.00 mm (2.205 in)

Case capacity
2.31 cm³ (36 gr H2O)

Maximum pressure
355.00 MPa (51,488 psi)

 

[memphisjim]

the m1 makes that eotech look gigantic

 

[USSR]

Has anyone ever adapted one to feed and fire 7.62x39mm ammo?

Too long. Heck, you can't even use .30 caliber pointed bullets in the .30 Carbine round without exceeding OAL.

Don

 

[bikerdoc]

Here is my bottom line. YMMV

An M1 carbine saved my life in 69. I have one and would not be reluctant to use it. That said, for home defense a 20 in Mossberg pump sits in the corner.

 

[DLEJones]

I enjoy the M1 that my Dad gave me, made during the war years. I have just had it serviced by Ohio Ord. and it is 100% fun to shoot. It is one that my much smaller wife can handle with ease and as you may have guessed, she is my backup if we had to "Make do".

 

[velocette]

How about an M1 carbine that has been made into a sporting rifle?
All the utility of a GI rifle, a nice stock and blued metal.
Don't scream HERESY!!!, I bought it like this. A very nice job was done, with excellent workmanship.

Roger

 

[bigfatdave]

velocette, I sort of like it, are the original iron sights/mounts completely gone?
I'd really like it if the scope wasn't mandatory.

And how much does it weigh compared to an un-modified GI model?

 

[Dr_2_B]

Wow Velocette, what an interesting set up.

 

[velocette]

BFD;
Original sight mounts are all gone. Sporterization was done by the (deceased) uncle of the gent I got it from (traded actually) Weight is about the same as the original, as is the accuracy, trigger pull etc. Scope is OK with me, I cannot effectively use iron sights any more, so - - .

 

[Tirod]

Um scuze me, paging Tirod. I guess you haven't read all the internet discussions about the ineffectiveness of the 5.56 round!

Aside from that debate, why would I want even less power and range from the .30 Carbine as the solution?

I built a 6.8 dissipator, I'm not much about the 5.56 as a hunting round on medium game. Those who have used it in combat have personally related they didn't have any problem with it - it's the internet commando that brings it up. For what I got to do with it - from the 20" M16 - I had no problems.

Nothing wrong with celebrating a gun for what it is, but put in the context the OP started off with, as a substitute for the M1 Garand. It would take extraordinary skills to be equally useful, but like I said, nobody on the net couldn't do that, right?

After all is said and done, they sold them off and dropped the design completely, small and large alike.

 

[amd6547]

They were made in the millions, used by us, and distributed to allies for decades. They were widely used through Viet Nam, and were one of the most popular police weapons almost up to today. I believe the Detroit police just got rid of theirs.
I knew a Cleveland cop. He was a veteran of the Korean war, fought at the Frozen Chosin.
As a Cleveland cop who worked during the big race riots in Cleveland during the 1960's (which he described as "open war"), he had his choice of several different long arms. He chose the carbine. And, he kept one in his house the rest of his life.

 

[7.62 Nato]

And don't forget the 5.7 Johnson Spitfire (.22 Spitfire). Developed for the M1 Carbine. It preceeded the FN 5.7 by about 40+ years.

.22 Spitfire

Designer Melvin M. Johnson
Designed 1963
Manufacturer Johnson Guns Inc.

Specifications
Bullet diameter .224 in (5.7 mm)
Neck diameter .253 in (6.4 mm)
Shoulder diameter .332 in (8.4 mm)
Base diameter .353 in (9.0 mm)
Rim diameter .356 in (9.0 mm)
Case length 1.29 in (33 mm)
Overall length 1.65 in (42 mm)
Rifling twist 1:14
Primer type Boxer small rifle

Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
40 gr (2.6 g) 2,850 ft/s (870 m/s) 720 ft·lbf (980 J)
40 gr (2.6 g) 3,000 ft/s (910 m/s) 795 ft·lbf (1,078 J)
50 gr (3.2 g) 2,700 ft/s (820 m/s) 810 ft·lbf (1,100 J)
Source(s): Barnes & Amber

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What I want to know is how many of you feel confident and competent enough to MAKE DO with a .30 carbine?

My first tour in Viet Nam, I was an Adviser to ARVN Infantry, and my issue weapon was an M2 Carbine. It got wrapped around a tree.