BETTER GUNS: How many could make do with a .30 Carbine?

[d2wing]

Handy little rifle but not legal for deer, not long range for varmits. A fun plinker but not useful for me. It would be awsome in .357 or .44 mag. Which brings up a Ruger mini 14
in a more useful cartridge.

 

[fpgt72]

Handy little rifle but not legal for deer, not long range for varmits. A fun plinker but not useful for me. It would be awsome in .357 or .44 mag. Which brings up a Ruger mini 14
in a more useful cartridge.

anything centerfire is legal for deer here in MO....IIRC.

They are really great little guns, but to be real while I love the little carbine to death if something like the walking dead happened I would grab the AR....ammo for that grows on trees.

 

[CZguy]

They are really great little guns, but to be real while I love the little carbine to death if something like the walking dead happened I would grab the AR....ammo for that grows on trees.

And to me that's really what it comes down to. In the late sixties early seventies Carbine ammo was cheap enough to plink with, but now mine comes out of the safe rarely, but the AR sure does.

 

[velocette]

Interesting talk about ammo for a .30 carbine. WalMart sells the ammo in 50 rd boxes by Remington, reloading the cases is easy, just trim to length carefully and use W296 or H110, bullets are readily available in FMJ, JHP and JSP. Whats not to like?

Roger

 

[WALKERs210]

Currently I have just about one of everything from 6mm plastic BB's up to 30-06 Garand with everything in between. I picked up a US Carbine this last weekend and I had forgotten what a great little rifle it is. Last one I had was in the early 80's and ammo was cheap, really got an eye opener in regards to the .30cal Carbine ammo. Could I manage with only the M1 Carbine, definite YES, if it was necessary to hunt game for food it will do the job, home defense it will work, plinking yes but will stay with my bb gun or 10/22.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Several people bring up the subject of ammo. Maybe we should start a new thread, but how much ammo is "enough", if hard times come, we don't have access to any more ammo (to purchase or reload), and we have to endure without "target practice"? I am wondering, if I only had a carbine (or AR, etc), how much ammo would I need, before I was WAY in over my head, dead, or I now had the weapons and ammo of the enemy I had just conquered? I'm thinking if I had 500 rounds of ammo for ANY rifle, that is more than an apocalypse would caue me to need or use. I'm sure my dad didn't fire 500 rounds total in WWII in the Pacific though his Garand, and he covered a lot of ground.

 

[Armchair Bronco]

Several people bring up the subject of ammo. Maybe we should start a new thread, but how much ammo is "enough", if hard times come, we don't have access to any more ammo (to purchase or reload), and we have to endure without "target practice"? I am wondering, if I only had a carbine (or AR, etc), how much ammo would I need, before I was WAY in over my head, dead, or I now had the weapons and ammo of the enemy I had just conquered? I'm thinking if I had 500 rounds of ammo for ANY rifle, that is more than an apocalypse would caue me to need or use. I'm sure my dad didn't fire 500 rounds total in WWII in the Pacific though his Garand, and he covered a lot of ground.

This would be an interesting topic: what were the average number of shots fired by different troops in different theaters of war? Italy, Normandy, Germany, Eastern Front, Pacific Islands, etc. for German, Russian, American, and British soldiers. Also, look at different conflicts (WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq).

 

[CZguy]

The ammo question is near and dear to me. The carbine is just fine for home defense situations. But if the government was slow to restore order (you know like it was a real long time till tax day) and I had to move I would want an AR as a minimum, and would prefer to have someone in the group with a even longer range rifle.

 

[7.62 Nato]

And to me that's really what it comes down to. In the late sixties early seventies Carbine ammo was cheap enough to plink with, but now mine comes out of the safe rarely, but the AR sure does.

Box of 50 can be had for around $20 more, or less. That's pistol ammo cost.

 

[CZguy]

Box of 50 can be had for around $20 more, or less. That's pistol ammo cost.

You are absolutely correct. What I was referring to was surplus ammo going for a couple of dollars for a box.

These were rifles were much more fun with a bunch if inexpensive ammo.

 

[7.62 Nato]

I think we've seen the days of "cheap" ammo prices disappear. I was refering to the cost of carbine ammo to rifle ammo in other than pistol calibers. Though there's not that much difference between them anymore either.

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

M1 Carbine - good enough

Okay, I won't compare M1 to what is available out there. You ask if I would be Okay with having it - yes I would. The ammo is a bit expensive, however, once you account for that you have: a low recoil, very maneuverable, accurate (at 100-150m) carbine, with more power then ANY pistol caliber carbine, while having about the same weight. It is good enough to shoot zombies, gangsters, and any types of -CANS you would like to shoot , including metal ones. However, it would be ineffective against opponents in body armor. If you want a zombie carbine, that is it. If you want a home defense carbine that will NOT overpenetrate - that is it. If you want something with VERY LOW recoil - that is it. I suggest getting a paratrooper folding stock one.

 

[splithoof]

Jim Cirillo used the .30 Carbine to take out a number of robbers while he worked the NYPD Stakeout Squad. It was one of his favorites, and talked about in one of his books.

 

[Nuclear]

I used one to hunt deer in Michigan, didn't really have long shots (over 50 yards would be the exception). Softpoints worked well. I think FMJ would go through most soft body armor. The carbine is light, easy to shoot, and more accurate than most think.

 

[4895]

Back in the day my father used to hunt deer in thick brush forest (Michigan) with his M1 .30 carbine. I was later given the rifle and fell in love with the accuracy, handling, recoil, report, and cheap ammo. Probably the most effective urban combat round/rifle.
Flash forward 20+ years...I have a few boxes of surplus lake city ammo, but they are hard to find. I love to shoot my M1, but it hasn't been out for about 8 months. The ammo is pretty expensive and an AR-15 is a far better weapon system. I would put the M1 up against any other smg up to 75 yards, but I wouldn't want it as my only rifle. Now, M1A...I would gladly keep a nice M1A (wood stock, linseed oil edition) over most any rifle I own.

 

[Hacker15E]

I absolutely love the M1 Carbine (along with all other USGI milsurps, Garands, '03s, etc) -- I would not hesitate to use it to defend myself and be completely confident in both the weapon and the round's ability to do so.

That being said, the discussion is naturally gravitating toward comparisons with the AR-15 platform. In that vein, what other posters have mentioned about ammunition availability is a significant player. In the United States, should there ever be some sort of sustained civil unrest or natural disaster (especially one that precludes hunkering down at a homestead), an individual is much more likely to be able to acquire 5.56/.223 ammunition than .30 Carbine.

"Make do"? Absolutely and confidently. But, my first choice (depending on circumstances)? Not really.

 

[bigfatdave]

the discussion is naturally gravitating toward comparisons with the AR-15 platform.

What if I find the AR15 platrorm un-ergonomic and clumsy?

In sustained civil unrest you'll be out of just about anything in a hurry anyway - the only caliber I can really stock in the quantities needed for "the crazy years" would be .22LR in bulk boxes. Looting ammo isn't going to last for long, if at all.

 

[nathan]

Its great for close in SD weapon within the 100 yds distance. Still running at .357 mag velocities at that distance is not bad.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Someone mentioned Audie Murphy liked the M1 Carbine, for combat. I think we need to think and act like Audie Murphy (probably) did in combat. I'm guessing he did not pull the trigger unless he had a VERY good sight picture. Spray and pray was not an option for a country boy trained to shoot during the depression, and only hits counted. He probably viewed the Carbine as a very useful tool that could take out 15 enemy before he had to reload. We should all adopt that mindset, with whatever weapon we carry. Only hits count.

 

[splithoof]

^^^Very well said!

 

[velocette]

The .30 carbine is kinda like the porridge in the 3 bears. Not to powerful, not too heavy, but just right.
Not much overpenetration, not much muzzle blast, our legislators in washington would do so well in compromising all needed attributes.

Roger

 

[Jeff F]

Audie Murphy didn't seem to mind using it against Germans armed with 8mm rifles and MP40 SMG's. He could have used any of the US small arms, and did use the Thompson and the Garand on occasion. But, the carbine was his choice.
He liked his carbine so much that when the stock cracked, he refused a replacement weapon and wired the stock back together.

Audie Murphy was a pretty small dude, 5-5 and 110 lbs soaking wet, I can kind of see the M1 carbine being his weapon of choice.

M1 Garand is a 10 lb rifle
Thompson is a 10 1/2 lb submachine gun
M1 carbine is a 5 1/2 lb rifle

I got buy with an M1 carbine for quite a few years then upgraded to a Mini 14. The carbine was a little handier but the Mini reaches out and kills those pesky coyotes quite a bit further.

 

[lemaymiami]

Sharps dressed... says it all. I don't own a carbine but I'd like to. All of my weapons training and use was in the Army then later in a police career. When I returned from Vietnam all those years ago I knew my hunting days were over (unless my family were hungry - in that case hide your dog if nothing else is available....).

Since my approach to weapons involves two legged targets, and I'm not out in farm country all of my shooting scenarios are fairly close quarters - 100 yards away probably a lot farther than I would ever need. Although I haven't carried a firearm in some years I do keep one handgun nearby. I know that in many circumstances a handgun is no where near enough, period. A shotgun is what I always preferred on the street (and nothing beats it one on one or two on one at CQB ranges) it's also not enough if you have multiple opponents. A 30cal carbine in good working condition is just what the doctor ordered as vehicle weapon for close quarters (the AR is superior but comes with serious over penetration problems in the big city or even the suburbs). For serious work at street level I give really high marks to weapons that are light, easy to maneuver with and handle. With modern soft point ammo that thing would be very, very effective at close quarters... If the tool fits the need and the situation, what's not to like?

 

[sixgunner455]

My dad used one as a cop. An older gentleman I knew as a kid used one as a Marine in the island campaigns.

Both of them lived long lives after their last serious use of the carbine. Their opponents, didn't.

I'd use one.

 

[danlnga]

The little carbine is one of the most natural pointing firearms I have ever used. That is important when getting on target quickly with repeatable accuracy is needed as in a self defense situation. It is also a good attribute when you "snap shoot" at a target flushed from cover & trying to escape. I can't help but feel the cartridge loaded with 110 gr soft points would be very effective on just about any thin skinned target within 100 yards that you might meet in today's world.
I enjoy mine & that is the other "plus".