Big bores can't shoot straight (caliber wars)

[gbran]

I don't want to start another caliber war thread, but I would like to address one aspect I see come up in almost every caliber war thread. I was at another site today where someone was trying to convince themselves that .32 ACP's and .380's were sufficient for SD. Someone responded that a .32 in the head was better than a .454 in the arse. Also typical are the usual "shot placement is everything" comments. While I agree that shot placement is key, I'm tired of posts pre-assuming that larger calibers (.40+) can't achieve shot placement. I also understand that some hot calibers might not be as easy to get good followup shots, but let's be real; it ain't that bad. I'd also bet my commander sized 1911 will outshoot a Beretta Tomcat any day, first or second shot, and that has nothing to do with caliber. My Ruger Target 22 will outshoot either and that has nothing to do with caliber. Anyway......just consider this my rant. I'm tired of the the incorrect argument basis that big bores can't shoot straight.

 

[Langenator]

Gee...if big bores can't shoot straight, why is the Contra Costa County (PRK) Board of Supervisors so worried about .50BMGs?:banghead:

 

[cratz2]

I think there are a couple issues that go into it... Chief among them is laziness and I am as guilty as anyone else... Larger guns generally take more effort to conceal and of course, they usually weigh more as a trend. Many folks don't want to put forth the effort of concealing a 5" all steel 1911 so they come up with a number of reasons why the 'cannot' rather than just admitting that they 'don't want to'.

The two skinniest guys I know that carry daily both carry all steel 1911s (one Commander and one Gumnit) and both dress in full dress clothes. When they are wearing dress slacks and a dress shirt, most can't tell they are carrying. And if Skunk can carry that Beretta of his, almost anybody can carry a full size gun... if they wanted to.

 

[Sean Smith]

I'm tired of the the incorrect argument basis that big bores can't shoot straight.

It is pretty silly from an objective point of view. Some of the most accurate autoloaders in existence are .45 caliber bullseye guns. You can hunt with a .44 Magnum wheelgun out to 100 yards because the cartridge is accurate that far out. And so on.

 

[Mikul]

gbran, you took those statements all wrong.

Nobody is saying that big bores can't hit what they're aiming it. Tricked out 1911's are all the rage in IPSC and strange people shoot pieces of steel that look like animals with .454 pistols at rifle distances.

What they mean is that bullets need to go where they can do some good. This is just as true of the .32 as the .454.

 

[MrAcheson]

Someone responded that a .32 in the head was better than a .454 in the arse.

I agree with Mikul, your taking this statement the wrong way. Its not saying .454s are inaccurate, its saying hitting your target is the most important thing.

Some of the small blowback guns are amazingly accurate because of the fixed barrel. Likewise big recoilful guns can give some people accuracy troubles due to flinching or what have you. On the other hand there are lots of big bores that are great shooters. In general, how well you shoot is far more important than what you shoot. Some people are bound to shoot one thing better than the other be it big or small.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

I'd like to invite that person out for a shoot:

Conditions:
1. 100 yards to target.

2. I'll shoot my 240gr 44 handloads out of my redhawk, they can shoot whatever small pistol caliber they want, we can go glass or iron sights, I don't much care.

 

[Bruce H]

What it comes down to is what are you profecient with. If you can empty a P32 in the X ring good enough. If you can empty a 454 in the X ring good enough. The major thing is have it and know how to use it.

 

[Preacherman]

Someone responded that a .32 in the head was better than a .454 in the arse.

I don't know about that... I suspect that if I took a heavy .454 load in the backside, I'd not be capable of doing very much except rolling on the ground and screaming for a while!

 

[Lancel]

Funny, I've never interpreted such statements as saying little bore is a better stopper than big bore.

It's just a simple claim that little bore can be enough bore.

('course there are times when any handgun is too small.)

Larry

 

[gbran]

Funny, I've never interpreted such statements as saying little bore is a better stopper than big bore.

I never said their argument was that little bores were better stoppers. I said their typical argument was that properly placed small bore shots were better than improperly placed big bore shots. This I agree with. What I disagree with is their assumption that big bores will magically always produce poorer shot placement.

 

[Treylis]

The two skinniest guys I know that carry daily both carry all steel 1911s (one Commander and one Gumnit) and both dress in full dress clothes. When they are wearing dress slacks and a dress shirt, most can't tell they are carrying. And if Skunk can carry that Beretta of his, almost anybody can carry a full size gun... if they wanted to.

I'm somewhat skinny--6'6" and 190--and I carry a 5" 1911. Hell, I prefer the big, heavy guns.

 

[Lancel]

Right, right

Funny, I've never interpreted such statements as saying little bore is a more accurate stopper than big bore.

It's just a simple claim that little bore can be enough.

('course there are times when any handgun is too small.)


Larry

 

[Drjones]

On another site I visit, people were actually defending the choice of the .22LR for self-defense.

No, that's not a typo.

Guess that's why people say to be wary of information garnered from the internet, huh? :banghead:

 

[Double Maduro]

Dr. Jones,

If a .22 is the only gun you have or if it is the largest caliber you can shoot accurately then it is the best choice for your CCW.

Personally, I carry a Ruger P90 most of the time, strong side in a Bianchi belt slide. When the weather is really warm and my clothing is skimpier I will carry a 2" .357 or a Makarov. I don't feel as comfortable with these as with the .45 but it is better than not carrying. I am just as proficient with them but prefer the .45.

I believe that the biggest caliber you can shoot accurately is your best choice for personal defence.

DM

 

[Drjones]

If a .22 is the only gun you have or if it is the largest caliber you can shoot accurately then it is the best choice for your CCW.

1) If a .22 is the only gun you have, you need to get another gun.

2) If .22 is the largest caliber you can shoot accurately, you simply are not practicing enough. Get to the range more. (This of course is barring physical handicaps such as arthritis, etc.)

 

[Double Maduro]

Drjones.

____________________________________________________________

1) If a .22 is the only gun you have, you need to get another gun.

2) If .22 is the largest caliber you can shoot accurately, you simply are not practicing enough. Get to the range more. (This of course is barring physical handicaps such as arthritis, etc.)

____________________________________________________________


I also agree with both of these.

DM

 

[cracked butt]

I dunno- its probably not necessary in theory, but does anyone practice drawing with their weak hand and doubletapping with a .454?


What if you are sitting in a car, or in a booth at a McChokenadPuke or some awkward situation where you cannot easily draw the 1911 because of the way you carry it? A little .380 in the jacket pocket might come to the hand much quicker.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Someone responded that a .32 in the head was better than a .454 in the arse.

I am not sure how accurate that statement is, unless the 454 wound was strictly a buttock wound.

 

[Ky Larry]

So, what we're all trying to agree on is : "The shooter is more important than the gun-load-caliber."

 

[pax]

Somewhere around here, Oleg has a poster he made which reads, "A .22 in hand is better than a .44 in the safe ... Carry!"

My sentiments exactly.

That said, for my personal peace of mind, nothing smaller than a .380 will do (this despite the fact that I occasionally carry a .32, when I can't carry a gun).

pax

 

[Yowza]

I recently took a CCW class recently and one of my classmates was shooting a Colt Mustang .380 and had some difficulty at 10 and 15 yards.

That being said, I would agree that even a .32 is an adequate defensive caliber if your shot placement is excellent, and it's certainly better than nothing. I have a .32ACP but I plan to carry a .45 when I get my license.

Rick

 

[grnzbra]

When someone is shooting at you and you are running (I said running, not some IPSC shuffle) to your right and he's running to your left, shot placement is going to go down hill real fast. In that case I want the biggest most powerful bullet hitting whatever part of his body I'm lucky enough to connect with.

 

[Hook]

Some people say that a smaller caliber lets them shoot faster and get more rounds off than they can with a larger caliber and that the end results are the same.
The only problem comes when your sitting in front of a jury (and you will be). They might find it hard to believe that you only wanted to "stop the threat" when the body has 10 rounds pumped into it.
That's when the perp suddenly becomes the victim.


Hook

 

[Majic]

What I disagree with is their assumption that big bores will magically always produce poorer shot placement.

The real problem is in people assuming something. As you can see you are just as guilty. You read their responces and assumed your own interpetation.