I have noticed something after much reading. It seems like the bigger the city the harder it is to get a permit? Bigger cities have more crime, that is where you actually need it! Anyone else feel that way. I feel I must take up for other city dwellers. Is there any city bigger than Atlanta in a shall issue state besides maybe Texas cites! Since when did cities become more powerful than states? Police forces are more corrupt in big cities. Are rapists and murderers going to travel to a farmhouse in the country to do their deeds? I doubt it! Why do that when you've got a bunch of yuppie liberals as prime targets.
Big City CCW
- Thread starter atlctyslkr
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Las Vegas has ~1.2-1.6 million people in the city itself, plus the outlying areas. The city doesn't have any overly silly gun laws (considering most/all of them are unconsitutional anyway), but the county does.
The local police in charge of CCW issuance have a reputation for dragging their feet as much as possible, but since all they can do is force successful applicants to wait up to 120 days, it could be worse...
The local police in charge of CCW issuance have a reputation for dragging their feet as much as possible, but since all they can do is force successful applicants to wait up to 120 days, it could be worse...
Problems??? What problems?
Got my first permit to carry in a big city at age 18. It took 4 weeks and I had to spend all of $25.00.
Got my first permit to carry in a big city at age 18. It took 4 weeks and I had to spend all of $25.00.
That is no illusion
Something is just plain wrong with cities.
atlctyslkr, you will be interested in some of the history about Missouri's 1999 CCW referendum. A map of the vote is here. That red stuff in the east is St. Louis. Then after CCW passed through the legislature over the governor's veto the urban centers delayed issuing permits as long as possible.
Now that I live in New York a similar situation exists. The city of New York swings the cat around here. So far the rural areas control one house of the assembly and is able to kill the outrageous proposals of the other. Repeals are out of the question (apparently).
Why this is the case and what can be done about it are important questions.
Something is just plain wrong with cities.
atlctyslkr, you will be interested in some of the history about Missouri's 1999 CCW referendum. A map of the vote is here. That red stuff in the east is St. Louis. Then after CCW passed through the legislature over the governor's veto the urban centers delayed issuing permits as long as possible.
Now that I live in New York a similar situation exists. The city of New York swings the cat around here. So far the rural areas control one house of the assembly and is able to kill the outrageous proposals of the other. Repeals are out of the question (apparently).
Why this is the case and what can be done about it are important questions.
Some of America's biggest socio-political problems are urban vs. rural, even though the [urban] media tells us its racial or economic.
I do not know whether the urbanization of America is the cause or the effect of the base problem, but it is even more pronounced in other countries that are socialist or moving that direction. As pointed out above, we see it on a smaller scale in some states and even in counties (e.g., King County Washington). In other counties, the city government has conquered the county and the governments have merged into a "metro" government (e.g., Louisville, KY, now the 16th largest "city" in the US).
I do not know whether the urbanization of America is the cause or the effect of the base problem, but it is even more pronounced in other countries that are socialist or moving that direction. As pointed out above, we see it on a smaller scale in some states and even in counties (e.g., King County Washington). In other counties, the city government has conquered the county and the governments have merged into a "metro" government (e.g., Louisville, KY, now the 16th largest "city" in the US).
Old Dog
Member
Is your presumption that one is more likely to be the victim of violent crime in the bigger cities (than one is in a rural area)? It all depends on where you live in a big city, where your business and recreational habits take you within the city (i.e., do you commute to work and home from a gated community to a secure parking garage in your POV and stay at home every night in your alarmed house, or do you work in a rougher section of town or hang out in nightclubs 'til 3:00 am on weekends?).
Dude, do some research. A few that come to mind (not in Texas): Philly, Phoenix, Detroit, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Columbus (OH). Memphis, Charlotte, Seattle, Nashville, Tucson, Alburquerque, New Orleans, Cleveland, Denver, Virginia Beach, Mesa, Louisville, Kansas City ...
Support this statement, please.
There is plenty of violent crime in non-urban areas throughout the country.
Well, Seattle is full of yuppie liberals, and the violent crime rate there is actually pretty low, as big cities go ...
Indiana don't count anyway, other than Gary, most of the state is very reasonable about CCW.
If Indiana were really smart, they'd give the Gary part to Illinois.
If Indiana were really smart, they'd give the Gary part to Illinois.
One is more likely to experience crime--by the odds--in the best part of a large city than in the worst part of the rural country. People in the country rarely even lock their doors, and still leave the keys in their cars at night. And they still have lower crime rates than gated communities.
You might as well ask him to support the statement that air on Earth is more breatheable than that in space...
Yeah, which is why my entire rural county had so many rapes and murders that you could count them on one hand. And why people don't walk the streets in Chicago after 11:00 p.m. without looking over their shoulders every few minutes (if they're smart). Yup, those generalizations about crime--they sure are groundless.
That is only true because even the criminals are smart enough to avoid that place...sad, but true.
Old Dog
Member
I see you're trolling for controversy today, Phetro ...
Well, the sun's not out yet, and I'm off, so ...
Actually, one can make a pretty darn good argument, based on some historical research, that police agencies in small communities can be as corrupt, if not more so, than police agencies in large cities, if you want to compare statistics on a per capita per department basis.
Well, the sun's not out yet, and I'm off, so ...
Woo! There's a zinger ...
Actually, one can make a pretty darn good argument, based on some historical research, that police agencies in small communities can be as corrupt, if not more so, than police agencies in large cities, if you want to compare statistics on a per capita per department basis.
All righty, then ...
I think it's because liberals/antis tend to flock to big cities and elect anti governors, anti police cheifs, etc. I didn't have a problem getting my CHL in the biggest city/county of Oregon 8 years ago but it IS the hardest place in the state to get one from what I've heard (no out of state permits issued, inconvenient and time consuming, etc.). I've since come to my senses and moved to a more rural county.
Actually, I was just responding to your sarcastic response to the OP in kind. You implied that he "incorrectly" assumed rural areas were safer than their urban counterparts, then pretended as if 95% of the rest of the country doesn't agree with him. I thought it deserved at least as much cynicism in return...perhaps, in retrospect, I piled it on a little thick (which I have been known to do, to my shame). Sorry about that.
With all due respect, however, I have never once seen any evidence that the level of corruption of rural departments came even remotely close to that of urban departments. Perhaps you could provide a source?
Old Dog
Member
Phetro, actually, I wasn't being sarcastic. Generalizations that one is more likely to be a crime victim in large urban areas -- these days -- are becoming less valid. I'd grant that years ago, statistics would probably bear out a far higher percentage of violent crime (i.e., rape, murder, assault) in urban areas over rural areas. I submit the gap has narrowed, and it's now unfair to believe that one is substantially safer in small town America. Urban areas don't have a monopoly on sexual assault or homicide any more. Instances of domestic violence can be shown to be statistically higher in some rurul areas over some urban areas. Sexual assault is commonplace all over, as are other types of assault.
What I was arguing was the original poster's de facto thesis idea that one NEEDS the right to CCW in big cities OVER small towns. This is not the sort of argument anyone on this board should be willing to support.
As far as corruption in law enforcement ... While there is a long history of egregious and systemic corruption in the police departments of many major cities in this country, there is no evidence (that I have yet been made aware of, others feel free to provide credible documentation) that there is any more likelihood of large cities' PDs being corrupt -- at this point in time, in our country -- than of small town PDs and county sheriffs' offices.
In fact, it's notable that it has been easier, in many instances, to hide years of corrupt activities, in rural law enforcement agencies, particularly those geographically remote or with less official oversight. Conversely, police corruption in the big cities, particularly if systemic in nature, will normally become evident to the citizenry -- and less tolerable, given population density -- much earlier. I'd offer some cites, but I'm crunched for time right now, although I'll try and dig out one of my old CJ texts later on this evening.
What I was arguing was the original poster's de facto thesis idea that one NEEDS the right to CCW in big cities OVER small towns. This is not the sort of argument anyone on this board should be willing to support.
As far as corruption in law enforcement ... While there is a long history of egregious and systemic corruption in the police departments of many major cities in this country, there is no evidence (that I have yet been made aware of, others feel free to provide credible documentation) that there is any more likelihood of large cities' PDs being corrupt -- at this point in time, in our country -- than of small town PDs and county sheriffs' offices.
In fact, it's notable that it has been easier, in many instances, to hide years of corrupt activities, in rural law enforcement agencies, particularly those geographically remote or with less official oversight. Conversely, police corruption in the big cities, particularly if systemic in nature, will normally become evident to the citizenry -- and less tolerable, given population density -- much earlier. I'd offer some cites, but I'm crunched for time right now, although I'll try and dig out one of my old CJ texts later on this evening.
Phoenix and the surrounding cities are all
shall issue.I had my permit in 7 businss days
after i mailed it.
shall issue.I had my permit in 7 businss days
after i mailed it.
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