Traveling to NY City or Chicago

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You do pretty good posting here, why not use that creative writing talent to send these guys letters, but make sure not to forget the governor of your state, and your elected officials in D.C. too.
I try to deal in realities. I have NO more likelihood of influencing Daley or Bloomberg for the better than I do of getting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to convert to Judaism, or of getting Melissa Etheridge to spend the weekend in a motel room in Vegas with me.

I write to people whom I think will either listen to reason or can be strong armed. In the latter vein, prior to the '04 elections, I wrote the unlamented Sen. Mike DeWine. I asked him if he was looking forward to a John Kerry presidency. I told him that if he was, he should vote to reauthorize the AWB, because if it was reauthorized, I and millions of other gunowners would be sitting the election out. I sent the same message to the White House. They apparently took the hint.
 
Deanimator, in my opinion you're wasting your breath.

These staunch defenders of the "right to keep and bear arms" talk a good game, but what they're defending is only their right to do what they want.

But they don't see any reason to allow other people the same right to choose, especially not if the choice isn't what they make for themselves.

There's no real difference between them and somebody like Jim Zumbo, who thinks and behaves exactly the same way.
 
Deanimator makes a good point. Writing to certain congresspeople or other elected office holders probably won't do a sliver of good. I live in Michigan for instance. I'm not going to waste my time writing to Carl Levin or Debbie Stabenow. Anything I write will be read be glanced over by some intern and tossed in the trash. People like Levin and Stabenow just think gun owners, expecially ones who write to them, are nutjobs. We're not changing their minds any time soon. They believe they know best, and that their socialist utopia should come to pass, whether the rest of us want it to or not.
 
I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago (Wheeling, IL). I've been downtown quite a bit and it's really a nice city, some nice things to see. It's just the politics that will drive you nuts. There are parts of Chicago that DO scare me however. I remember walking through this area "little Mexico" basically with cracked roads and old factorys, think it was near navy pear. There were a lot of poor people in the streets and alleys and they would approach us trying to sell us their socks while on crutches. I was little at the time so that stuff scared the **** out of me! The socks had holes in them too.

I wonder what the laws are regarding bringing a gun into Illinois if you aren't a resident, I know the gun laws are restrictive though considering my father got busted on a Felony because his FOID card expired (they refused to renew it because he was bipolar and sent to a mental institution).

I guess if your making a political stance, then boycotting the area might be a good idea. But if you want to make your girlfriend happy or see Chicago, it's not a bad place to visit. Theres a lot to see if you ignore the politics and the crime.
 
I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago (Wheeling, IL). I've been downtown quite a bit and it's really a nice city, some nice things to see. It's just the politics that will drive you nuts. There are parts of Chicago that DO scare me however. I remember walking through this area "little Mexico" basically with cracked roads and old factorys, think it was near navy pear. There were a lot of poor people in the streets and alleys and they would approach us trying to sell us their socks while on crutches. I was little at the time so that stuff scared the **** out of me! The socks had holes in them too.

Perhaps you're talking about Pilsen, although it's NOWHERE near Navy Pier. Roughly speaking it's along Ashland Avenue, around 47th Street and south (I can only tolerate Chicago once a year, so stuff changes while I'm gone.) I like Pilsen, but then I like Mexicans and especially Mexican food. There are some VERY good Mexican restaurants in Pilsen. Of course some of the best Mexican food I've ever had was at Cortez's in Blue Island, just up Western from where my mother used to live.

I guess if your making a political stance, then boycotting the area might be a good idea. But if you want to make your girlfriend happy or see Chicago, it's not a bad place to visit. Theres a lot to see if you ignore the politics and the crime.

Unfortunately, they're making it harder to see every year. I usually visit my mother at Christmas. I usually go out to dinner with my cousin who lives in Humboldt Park (A place I HATE going without a gun. Strange how the Cleveland area is awash in LEGAL guns, even Class III, but _I_ have NEVER had a bullet come through MY bathroom window.) The last few visits, it's become increasingly difficult to go out to dinner. Every time I come back to Chicago, more and more of the sidestreets on the North side are Permit Only parking. And this past Christmas, I discovered that that contagion has spread to the South side as well. I simply refuse to spend more to park than I do to eat, and in a town in which I don't want to be in the first place. It's simply amazing; the ONE thing I liked about Chicago, and they've managed to wreck THAT too.
 
the ONE thing I liked about Chicago, and they've managed to wreck THAT too

Lots of metered parking is free after 6pm on Saturdays. Free street parking is still available, but you really have to know where to look. If you're staying with someone, I'd strongly advise getting around by cab. Short jaunts are fairly cheap when split a couple ways - and you don't have to worry about your car if you happen to overindulge at dinner.
 
Perhaps you're talking about Pilsen, although it's NOWHERE near Navy Pier. Roughly speaking it's along Ashland Avenue, around 47th Street and south (I can only tolerate Chicago once a year, so stuff changes while I'm gone.) I like Pilsen, but then I like Mexicans and especially Mexican food. There are some VERY good Mexican restaurants in Pilsen. Of course some of the best Mexican food I've ever had was at Cortez's in Blue Island, just up Western from where my mother used to live.

Deanimator you were right it is Pilsen. I get mixed up on locations sometimes. It's been almost 5 years since I moved from Chicago (I was 16 at the time) and the last time I was downtown I think I was 14 or 15. I have no problem with Americans with Mexican background, just the ones who are here illegally. But other than that, I agree they make some very good food and some great authentic restaurants in the area.
 
look guys, i CCW while i'm asleep but at some point you just need to go and enjoy yourselves.

use common sense, don't stick out like a touron and if you feel better bring some pepper gas spray (teargas products like Mace are illegal in NYC) and a small maglite flashlight than can double as a kubotan.

crap happens in Chicago and NYC and it sucks that you can't carry in either but come on...live a little.
 
Or the bus. We stay in Hyde Park and take the #6 downtown.

I like to go footborne once we get in The Loop. The GF knows to wear comfortable shoes.
No thanks. Growing up in Chicago, I've had some fairly interesting experiences on the bus, like the time the bus driver offered one wino a free ride if he'd beat the crap out of another wino and throw him off the bus (which he did).

The Stalinist that I went to lawschool with got jumped on the way home on the North side (Sheridan Ave?). He swung his attache case up between one of the guy's legs so hard it lifted him up off the floor of the EL car. He dashed off the train a couple of stops ahead of his just as the train was pulling in, leaving his assailant on the floor. A little bit farther from the stop and he might have ended up dead.

I moved to Cleveland from Chicago in '86. I flew to Chicago to pick up a U-Haul truck and drive back to Ohio. My flight was late, so my mother refused to pick me up at O'Hare. I had to ride the CTA from O'Hare to 79th and Honore, unarmed, with suitcases, and carrying a LOT of cash on me. I was VERY unhappy. I didn't see my mother again until 1999.
 
look guys, i CCW while i'm asleep but at some point you just need to go and enjoy yourselves.

use common sense, don't stick out like a touron and if you feel better bring some pepper gas spray (teargas products like Mace are illegal in NYC) and a small maglite flashlight than can double as a kubotan.

crap happens in Chicago and NYC and it sucks that you can't carry in either but come on...live a little.

Oh, oh. It's dangerous to have a concealed weapon nearby when you sleep. That's not using good common sense. You could accidentally shoot yourself or your wife while you're half asleep or just dreaming. And your five-year-old child might come wandering into your bedroom, find the gun, and play with it. A burglar could get to it before you do and use it to murder you, your wife, your child, and your dog Buster. Then he can use it to make blood run in the streets.

Use some common sense and lock up all your firearms while you are asleep.

I just hadn't realized that Chicago and New York were so safe that the gun control laws in those two cities were actually quite reasonable and acceptable. If the people who live there see no need for people to have concealed weapons, that's good enough for me.

I'm certainly not going to continue my opposition to Mayors Daley and Bloomberg because they don't want individuals to have guns in their cities. Now I see why Mayor Bloomberg's consortium of mayors want to stamp out the flood of illegal guns pouring in from outside their cities. It's the guns people bring into those cities that cause the little crime in them.

Suddenly I see why cities like Columbus and Toledo, Ohio, reject the state's preemption laws and don't allow firearms that are legal under state law. There is just no need for anyone to have those firearms! I had been criticizing those cities too but now I will stop. Really. It's a waste of my time to do such things and there's no reason to do it.

I am going to use commonsense. We all need to get off the backs of those politicians and start supporting them. There's just no reason for anyone to have a concealed weapon in any place where the law prohibits it. This is a new kind of thinking for me, and I don't recall seeing it advocated in gun forums before now, but count me in. I'm on board.

Using a small Maglight as a Kubotan is an excellent idea. I'm an old guy, though, and I have bouts of arthritis. If I can't quite do the Kubotan maneuvers with the Maglite, is it good form to ask an attacker for his cooperation? And if there is more than one attacker, should I give each of them a number and insist that they wait their turns?

"No, it's not your turn to stab me. I only have one Maglite and there's only one of me. So we have to take turns. That other guy comes first. If you keep jumping the line I'm going to throw you out of this attack."

Come on. Live a little.

:banghead:
 
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One question that no one has asked -

is exactly WHY does your GF want to go to Chicago &/or NYC ??

Because she's heard/seen what 'wonderful' places they are perhaps or then again it's really none of my/our business.

Having been to both cities multiple times - let's see -
um -

Big
Dirty
Dangerous ( yes they are ! )
Crowded
Unbelieveably expensive
Rude people

and the up-side is plays ( watching people play 'pretend' on stage ) and
'great food' ( debatable ).

Sorry, I'll pass.
 
Originally posted by Robert Hairless:
You actually argue against the need for people to have concealed weapons permits and to carry defensive handguns.

But I recall that a few months ago you were trying various ways to get a concealed weapons permit in Bloomington, Indiana, while you remained an Illinois resident and would be an out-of-state student at Indiana University.

Neither the University and Bloomington's police chief would allow it, so I think I recall that you had come up with some kind of scheme to use a friend's address as your mailing address.

I'm interested in the reality of someone who tried so hard to get a concealed carry permit for himself but tells other people that they don't need to carry. That's some reality.
I am not arguing against the need for people to have concealed weapons and permits for those guns.

I am saying that you are implying that if you do not have one murderers, rapists, and gang bangers are going to swarm you. Your the one claiming that these cities are dangerous and that these things are constantly happening. But I would argue that millions of people travel daily to these cities without their handguns and manage to make it through the day.

Having a gun is a great step in being preparted but it is not the only step. I agree that smoking and those things are voluntary. But I am also saying then your just being paranoid. A gun will help you in those bad sitiutations undoubtedly.

What does me trying to get a permit when I was going to move to IU have to do with it? Yes I wanted to carry a gun to help better prepare myself. But I still had other methods at my disposal. I just was going to choose to arm myself. However I dont have that option here in IL (I declined IU for personal reasons). I still walk to class, go out with friends, take girls to dinner, and live a relatively normal life without carrying a gun. I have even been inside Chicago, or the game preserve as Deanimator calls it, and I have survived without a gun. Would I rather have a gun? Yes of course I would. Will I live my life in fear because I can not legally carry a gun? No I will not.

I am not saying that people should not carry a gun, I am just saying that if you feel that you cannot set foot anywhere without your gun then there is a problem.

As I said earlier carrying a concealed gun does not mean that you are automatically immune from a criminal as the statements your making seem to imply.
 
I'll rephrase...

In Chi, make sure the broken down gun in the trunk is one you don't care about losing. The CPD, from what I've witnessed, doesn't make a habit of running down tourists who have guns locked in the trunk. It also helps if said tourist doesn't do a little dance about what they have stashed nicely away in the trunk. As long as it stays there, and you are continuing on your way with it out of the city, you'll be fine. Federal law would trump anything the Happy Little Elf that runs the town might want to do. It's for a similar reason that outlanders are suffered to bring cased and broken weapons and ammo to O'hare Airport which is within the corporate city limits of Chicago. No billboard will announce that this is OK--but it is OK.

All this being said, if an individual has somehow made himself a problem for and created extra work for the Chicago PD they may take away your pea shooter and send you on your way with a polite 'Get the F--- outa here'.

If it comes to that, cut your loses and take their advice. Once again, Indianapolis is really nice and less chaotic:) .
 
I have lived in the western burbs all my life and been to Chicago more times than I can count. I've had more trouble in mid sized "bad" towns like Aurora and Joliet. If you have any street sense about you, you should be fine. Or look at the buildings around you.... just by that you should be able to tell if there is a gang that frequents that area :evil:
 
Tecumseh:

You've twisted what I wrote, argued against the distortions you yourself created and put in my mouth, then diagnosed me as mentally ill because of them. Are you nuts or just nasty and at least a little slow?

Taurusowner began this thread by saying that his girlfriend wanted to visit New York City and Chicago but "I really would not feel safe unarmed in either of these cities walking alone with my girlfriend, day or night."

My response to his statement was: "Lots of people enjoy risky behaviors. Your girlfriend seems to be among them. Me, I would explain the situation that exist in the cities of her heart's desire." Those are the first three of only four sentences in what I wrote that a normal person could possibly interpret as referring to crime, and only the two word "risky behaviors" and the seven words "the situation that exist in the cities" give it that possibility. Everything else comes from your mind, not my message.

You twisted my response into your own bizarre fantasy that if you don't carry a gun in those two cities "murderers, rapists, and gang bangers are going to swarm you." That nutsiness came from you, not me.

Then you say, "Your the one claiming that these cities are dangerous and that these things are constantly happening." No, that nutsiness didn't come from me: it came from you.

Based purely on your own fabrications you diagnose me as mentally ill: "But I am also saying then your just being paranoid." Something is wrong with you.

Those are nutsy statements, I agree, but you're the exclusive source of their nutsiness. I can't know if you really believe I said those things or if you're just pretending I said them so you could "argue that millions of people travel daily to these cities without their handguns and manage to make it through the day." Perhaps you're projecting your fears onto me. I can't tell what is wrong at your end from this distance, but something really is seriously wrong there.

Perhaps you're doing it to create straw men so you can assert your stability with this fabrication: "As I said earlier carrying a concealed gun does not mean that you are automatically immune from a criminal as the statements your making seem to imply." I implied no such thing: you did, here and earlier. "I am just saying that if you feel that you cannot set foot anywhere without your gun then there is a problem." I never said I felt that way: you did. As I said earlier, I don't know if you do it because you're nutsy or nasty or have trouble comprehending.

At the end of my message to Taurusowner I said, "I won't spend a penny to support cities that won't let me defend myself against their criminals." Those seventeen words are the only real allusion I made to crime in any cities, and they just don't say what you are trying hard to make them say. The sentence reflects my unwillingness to support harsh gun control laws in New York City, Chicago, and several other cities. It's a general statement about cities that won't let people defend themselves. Your point is that it's paranoid to think that way. Join the Brady Campaign: they agree, and you can be their poster child.

I've lived in and/or done business in both of those cities for much longer than the 25 years you've been alive and still sheltered in school. I wouldn't say that you're an absolute idiot if you think that New York City and Chicago are as safe as you claim. But I will say that you do need to get out a bit more. At least read the newspapers or watch the little sound bites on television, or maybe do some research on the Internet. Know something before you talk.

When the Mayors of New York City and Chicago form a consortium of city mayors to protest "illegal guns" causing crime in their cities, it doesn't take many smarts to know that they are saying what you vehemently deny: that there is violent crime in those cities, and that those crimes involve criminals who use guns, and that the violent gun crime in New York City and Chicago is beyond the ability of their mayors and police departments to control it. So I'll stand behind my statement about not spending my money to support cities that won't let me defend against their criminals. Their mayors are hysterical and trying to blame others for their problems and incompetence at handling those problems, but they won't let people have the means to defend themselves. About five months ago (October 19, 2006) a staff member of Mayor Michael Bloomberg (the mayor of New York City) was carjacked and beaten by thieves while running an errand for the mayor in nearby Hackensack, New Jersey. You don't have a clue. But I don't care what you do. Run for office in your town if that's your latest dream.

Anyone interested in comparing what I actually wrote with your versions of it is welcome to do so. There's no point in continuing to beating that dead horse unless you continue your silly attempts to ride it.

But there is another problem. The reason why I asked about your frantic attempts to get a concealed weapons permit in Bloomington, Indiana, a few months ago is so that you might recognize that it's not "paranoid" to want to carry the means of self defense and that it doesn't imply a belief that zombies lie in wait around every corner ready to pounce.

But you can't see outside yourself long enough to make the connection: "What does me trying to get a permit when I was going to move to IU have to do with it?" You say "Yes I wanted to carry a gun to help better prepare myself." I hope you didn't want to "better prepare" yourself for your studies with a gun. You say "I just was going to choose to arm myself" but you think that other people are paranoid for wanting to arm themselves.

I recall your earlier comment about living in your own reality. It's not a place I enjoy visiting even at this distance. Come out of that awful place if you can.
 
exactly WHY does your GF want to go to Chicago &/or NYC ??

the up-side is plays ( watching people play 'pretend' on stage ) and 'great food' ( debatable ).

Well - our symphony, ballet and opera are pretty highly regarded, as well. :) I saw cosi fan tutte Saturday night, and it was great. And don't forget the world-class museums, historically significant architecture, and premier music venues for just about every taste. Never mind the diverse ethnic neighborhoods, nightlife, and sports. My fiancé tells me that the shopping is pretty good, as well. ;)

I'm not on the tourism board. I'm just pointing out that you don't have to strain too hard to imagine why a person would accept some level of risk to visit such a place.
 
the world-class museums
Compared to the NY Metropolitan Museum of Art's, the Chicago Art Institute's arms and armor collection looks like the sporting goods department at Walmart. Praise of New York comes hard for me, but I consider the Met's collection second only to the NRA Museum. No doubt there are some in Europe better than the Met's, but I've never been to Europe.
 
Skip NYC and Chicago.

Visit Philadelphia instead, they have lots of great things to see and do there. and you can carry if you hev a permit in antother state Pa recognizes many, or you can get a 5 year out of stste permit by sending a copy of yours and two pictures along with $25. The Sherriff Of McKean county will do it by mail and so will many others in Pa.

You can see the Liberty bell, Declaration of independence, Betsy Ross' House, Carpenters hall, Ginos Cheese steaks (make sure you speak english there to order). The Franklin institute the Art museum, the Rodan museum, China town, and there are 4 top rated restaurants there, among which are LeBec Fin, and Susanna Foo.

Its much less expensive and much less crowded than NYC and Chicago.
 
Visit Philadelphia instead,
I went to the AFCEA conference there in '86. I had a good time.

The downside was the INCREDIBLE number of bums in the downtown area. And they were AGRESSIVE! I'll never forget the guy standing in the street, barefoot, in a puddle of his own urine, talking to himself... and no, it was NOT Dennis Kucinich.

Still, I had a good time. There is indeed a lot to do in Philly. It was the first time I'd ever seen a Borders Books.
 
...just returned from an overnight trip to NYC, upper east side. I decided not to take my stout wood cane. I carried a Surefire flashlight in my left hand when I was on the street. It appeared to me that everyone else had their hands in their pockets, expecting nothing bad to happen to them.

BTW, I used to live in Phila, and I have no desire to visit again. It is not safe at all.
 
I spent the last 4 months of 2005 in NYC, it's an incredible place despite its faults. The food really is incredible, the museums are wonderfull, and there are alot of fun things to do.

That being said, don't step an inch north of 96th street, don't ride the subway at night, and if you're in an area where the 'tone' of your skin doesn't match that of those around you be aware that you ARE a target.

Manhatten isn't bad, stuck up a little, but overall its rather nice and I plan on going again.

I did however break the law with regard to carying a handgun during my stay, I brought a small cheap pocket auto, a 12 gauge for the appartment and a 1911 for everyday use. I never needed them, but I did have them

Just be aware that they occasionally have checkpoints in the subways where they can search you.

I'm not advocating you bringing a gun or doing anything illigal, If I had to do it over I probably wouldn't have brought the ones I did.

I'll say it again, Stay in manhatten and you'll probably do just fine. Take the train down to brooklyn, or up to the bronx and you'll find trouble fast and look out of place (cony island is the exception)
 
That being said, don't step an inch north of 96th street, don't ride the subway at night, and if you're in an area where the 'tone' of your skin doesn't match that of those around you be aware that you ARE a target.
For all of its faults (and it has many) that's the one thing I immediately perceived a LACK of in Cleveland.

Coming from Chicago, the idea of not knowing the "dominant" race in an area of a city simply seemed impossible. The first week I was here, I drove all over the place finding every bookstore. In the course of my travels, I drove through neighborhoods where I didn't know if they were Black or White. That's something you ALWAYS know in Chicago.

The irony is that Cleveland used to be a hotbed of White supremacist activity only a few years ago, and even during that period it was LESS racist than Chicago. Strangely too, unlike in Chicago, a Black mayor doesn't feel compelled to hire aides who on the side, sell audio-tapes claiming that Jewish doctors INTENTIONALLY infect Black children with AIDS. I've still got the "Chicago" magazine that addressed the hijinks then going on in the Mayor's office and City Council after Harold Washington died. In Chicago, even Black people can be "Nazis"...
 
I never thought I'll join discussion like this...

NYC can never be safe! This is coming from a person who lived there for well over 10+ years! I moved to AL for business awhile back and now living in CT.

Out of the 10+ years that I lived there I have been robbed, house had been broken into and just about everything in between. There are always something illegal going on and I lived in the pretty good part of town. A friend of mine who lived in a bad area who can never go home after 9PM. If he goes home late there is like a 20% chance that (already happened so many times) he will get robbed before reaching his apartment. He basically doesn't go home until the next morning if he had to stay out late. A cousin of mine got raped a few years back coming home from work, and that was suppose to be a decent area too:rolleyes: . A few months ago GF's bro got beat up on the bus just because he's Asian. Uncle's car got stolen right in front of his house a year or so ago. I can go on and on about our own personal experiences. My point is that all of the above can happen anywhere but it happens WAY more often to people in NYC. Nothing like this have happened after I (and those of my friends/families that left) leave the big apple and I thank god for that. Its a big apple, but a rotton one.
 
The point many people make here is a good point. The odds are against needing to carry a defensive weapon in New York City or Chicago, because the odds are against anyone being attacked in those cities.

As Tecumseh has said so well, millions of people go about their lives in those giant cities without being attacked. They don't need to carry concealed weapons.

In fact the odds are against anyone being attacked in most places. No one needs to carry in those places either.

It is clear that the only places you need to carry a concealed weapon for your personal defense in case of attack are places in which you are likely to be attacked. If you don't go to those places, you do not need to carry a concealed weapon.

Since you should not go to places where you are likely to be attacked, unless you are a law enforcement officer, you do not need to carry a concealed weapon. Only law enforcement officers need to carry concealed weapons because they are the only people who must go where they are likely to be attacked.

Let us continue to tell as many people as possible that it is paranoid to want to carry a concealed weapon or to have a concealed weapons permit.

We make a good start in this thread. Let us increase our efforts to defeat concealed carry throughout this country. Only paranoid civilians, who live in fear, want to carry a concealed weapon. Ignore them.

Help roll back the concealed carry laws that have proliferated throughout the country in the past few years. They do nothing except spread fear and paranoia. Join the Brady Campaign today.
 
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