I was in no way intending to suggest that, I was intending to say that the TKO is widely misunderstood and misused, and that there are better choices for nearly anything than a round ball, the Brenneke being an excellent choice. If you are happy with a round balls performance, great, but being satisfied with it doesn't mean its great, or that there aren't much better choices for the use.
Big game/Dangerous game slugs?
- Thread starter illinoisburt
- Start date
- Status
I was in no way intending to suggest that, I was intending to say that the TKO is widely misunderstood and misused, and that there are better choices for nearly anything than a round ball, the Brenneke being an excellent choice. If you are happy with a round balls performance, great, but being satisfied with it doesn't mean its great, or that there aren't much better choices for the use.
RPRNY
Member
Again, no issue taken with your remarks on TKO.
Your assertion that "there are better choices for nearly anything than a round ball" remains however incorrect and displays a prejudice without support. In fact, for the intended purpose, round ball is quite effective: 100 yards or less, delivering deep penetration. To suggest that 350-400 grs projectiles at terminal velocities over 1000 Fps will not achieve substantial penetration on anything in North America is factually incorrect. So, an easy to stabilize, quite accurate for purpose projectile that delivers deep penetration is, in fact, quite a good choice. Not the only choice. Maybe not your choice. But objectively, a good choice.
entropy
Member
Then you should practice with a pump shotgun more. I can shoot my 870 way faster than my Win. 94, and more accurately. Working the pump helps bring the muzzle back down. Not so for lever actions. Indeed, the ricochet to the head I took was from the repeated muzzle rise of the 3 rapid test shots from a Marlin 336 I'd just worked on. The included comment in parenthesis shows you've never fired a Win. M1887 lever action shotgun.
I will agree there's nothing wrong with a lever 45-70 for the OP's needs.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,935
Been there, done that. I hate the way an 1887 looks, but there was no contest shooting a lever action 12ga 1887 faster than a 1897 slide action. I always wanted to play the purist and shoot a SxS coachgun, but when I built a 97, my splits shrunk, and when I bought a slicked drop two 87, they dropped even more.
The winchester 94 isn't a good representation of cycle speed. Putting all of the guts back into your rifle with every cycle is just a waste of time. The Win 94 isn't winning any drag races, there's a reason the top CAS/SASS shooters are running short stroked Marlins, 73's, and 66's (66 being the faster of that bunch in itself).
Now, if you can outrun an 1886 rifle with your 870, I'll buy your videos!!
Interesting, I don't recall stating any of the things youve asserted I have, other than there better choices for nearly any purpose. That in no way says a round ball doesn't work, just that theres better choices. Ive shot stuff with round balls. They work. The other stuff you mentioned is your words, not mine.
OP
OP
illinoisburt
Member
There was no intention on my part to buy a new rifle. This is basically an ammo question as opposed to a platform debate.
I guess you could say I enjoy shotguns and feel confident in the platform. I'm not claiming to be the world's greatest wing shooter, but I hold my own at trap with my 870. Every fall for a couple decades before moving south, I swapped out the rifle sight barrel and head to the woods for deer with a pocket full of slugs.
I have been reloading rifle and handgun ammo since the late 1980's. Recently I started casting my own 12 gauge slugs with fairly satisfactory results. I've sent a wide variety of factory fodder down range. I think they could be grouped into 1. Big hunk of lead, 2. Different shaped big hunk of lead, or 3. Handgun bullet with big hunk of plastic.
So being the type who thinks about these wondrous things, why not another choice: #4 rifle bullet with big hunk of plastic? It's for fun at this point, though surely there could be a practical use for such an exotic beast stateside. As the mind wanders one observes by golly it might be similar to those lovely brass cigars folks carry around the dark continent.
Anyway it is easy enough to get bullets and already have all the other goodies with the exception of a compatible wad or sabot. When I have some free time to experiment this summer we will see what comes together.
RPRNY
Member
It was a direct quote.
entropy
Member
I meant production guns, not CAS race guns. And you didn't specify models, so I mentioned what I own and shoot regularly. The 1897 is the slowest of the pump actions, I would imagine that a tricked-out 1887 would be faster. And yes, Marlins are much faster than Winchester lever actions, (even before being turned into a race gun) I have a scar on my forehead that proves they are fast. It also proves they have muzzle rise.
You were comparing apples and oranges in your mind, and with your competition background. And I've shot one M1886 in my life, one I worked on, so I really don't have enough experience with it to compare.
Like the OP I do have a lot of Trap experience with the 870, as well as field experience with it and the 1100. I can shoot the 870 as fast, and more accurately, than an 1100. Maybe you can shoot an M1886 faster than a semi auto shotgun. But 99% of us can't, myself included. I don't do videos, sorry.
Illinoisburt, I am interested to hear the results of your experiments.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,935
The lightning (or thunder) rifles don't out run 73's, let alone 66's either.
870's are fast, but more gross motor movement means slower splits.
870's are fast, but more gross motor movement means slower splits.
Considering launching long for caliber bullets from a shotgun is kinda neat idea imo, needed or not.
Couple things pop into mind. Youll need longer Sabots, and youll need a faster twist barrel. The sabots used now probably wont support enough of the shank on a long bullet for consistency, and stock barrel twist is too slow to stabilize them.
Perhaps going to a 450-500grn .475-.50 solid would be an acceptable compromise between bullet length and sd/weight.
I dont have anything concrete to base these ideas on, they just seem like they make sense to me.
Couple things pop into mind. Youll need longer Sabots, and youll need a faster twist barrel. The sabots used now probably wont support enough of the shank on a long bullet for consistency, and stock barrel twist is too slow to stabilize them.
Perhaps going to a 450-500grn .475-.50 solid would be an acceptable compromise between bullet length and sd/weight.
I dont have anything concrete to base these ideas on, they just seem like they make sense to me.
Jason_W
Member
What about using a 20 gauge hull as a platform to launch a .338 to .400 cal projectile? The smaller the projectile diameter, the less length you need for a long for caliber bullet.
Which was a direct quote, my saying "theres better choices for nearly anything than a round ball" or your several sentences of interpreting what you wanted me to be saying, but which never came from my keyboard?
RPRNY
Member
You were quoted. Your insistence that "there's better choices for nearly anything than a round ball" was skillfully refuted. You don't like it. Understood. There is no need to belabor it.
You may have misunderstood my meaning, I wasn't intending to comment on your load so much as make a general comment on the various loads available. Any misunderstanding was unintentional, my apologies for the misunderstanding. Lets not pursue the point any further after our PMs.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dog Soldier
member
I cast and load the LEE Key 1 Oz. slug. It shoots great in a short barreled 97 Winchester. I think it would be adequate for old Grizz.
- Status
